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Will Linea Diesel Succeed even with the 1.6 MJet ??

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by cyberdoctorind, May 4, 2011.

  1. adisrini1103

    adisrini1103 Amatore

    Messages:
    243
    Coimbatore
    Linea 1.3
    My uncle is looking for a 13 Lakh car and he zeros on to Duster, Ecosport, City and Corolla .
    he never even considered the Linea , i even tried to convince him to go for the linea or the Avventura.

    He neglects because
    1.He says it has very poor ASS from TVS service (Way past in coimbatore) and TATA service (he doesnt even know Fiat is alone now)
    2.No good mileage for its segment Honda-25/Toyota 22/Linea 20
    3.There is no 'premium' image with Linea
    4. Then he says he wants an automatic(if he chooses a sedan) so i stopped convincing him.
    5.Or he needs a beefy looking mini SUV

    I dint think giving it a 1.6 would do the trick.
    1.Why cannot fiat do some freakin thing to claim 26.kmpl (fiesta classic once claimed 30kmpl)
    2.Why not an AMT (it's from it's own allied company)?
    3.Why not launch the 500x with the current Punto's platform??would look like a premium miniSUV
    4.Why not advertise like Maruti or hyundai about premiumness.
    5.Why not give the cars two goddamn projectors and DRLs.

    I dont think Fiat is going to survive for long....Whos with me
  2. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @adisrini1103, Car buying is a personal decision with many aspects as is also evident from the way your uncle thinks about it. If you see that his budget is Rs. 13lacs, it is but obvious he would look beyond Fiat at all the available options. As a side note better if he can find a Corolla trim he likes in that budget.

    Although Fiat's survival is not based purely on car sales (and everyone here would like to see some cars that sell). But we tend to worry too much sometimes about its survival in the long term. In the shorter period of time as far as spare and service is accessible and affordable no point worrying too much about it.

    The 1.6mjd would be fun to have, although no one knows yet how and if Fiat plans to launch it in Fiat models. It will see moderate success that too if Linea could manage to copy some interior cosmetic and feature tricks from the likes of Hyundai and Honda.
    dadasaheb, PradeepM and prabhjot like this.
  3. adisrini1103

    adisrini1103 Amatore

    Messages:
    243
    Coimbatore
    Linea 1.3
    @asimpeson I agree with you, but my uncle in the discussion he is even better of with swift dzire or etios.

    And my concern with fiat is that it didn't even come to his mind that there is a brand called fiat , which I had to remind him.

    Get another worse case, my cousin in kumbhakonam is looking for a car under 7L
    And he doesn't even know that the brand fiat still exists, he said palio was the last car .

    Fiat is not selling well is just because of misconception and people not knowing the brand still exists in tier 2 cities
  4. kk27

    kk27 Amatore

    Messages:
    202
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Fiat Enthusiast
    I think Fiat is doing very right thing! Yes it's not marketing, but I believe it's probably coz they want to keep the marketing budget tight. In a way I feel Fiat very well knows the Indian Market, it knows that the market is mass driven & perception driven and it's a mammoth task getting it right. It is rather spending much time & effort in setting shops and service & getting it's spare & service act together.

    Infact I'm for one happy that Owning a Fiat still is seen by most as "Enthusiast, Crazy, Unique & Rebel" type of person. I love the fact that people gawk & keep looking back at Punto & Lineas, And then surprised when I drop them like a bag of stones on ghats in my palio, I love it when each of my friends owning other cars wanna drive the fiat on a long drive :D. They're amazed at how stable the car can be at high speeds, They love it but are afraid of owning one, reasons are a plenty.

    I love the fact that I stand out of the crowd & that I never have to search for my car in a parking lot :)!!! I'm happy that Fiat has not adopted Huyndai & Maruti tricks & still remains what it's most appreciated for.... Still having heavy body, superb highway car, old school hydraulic steering, amazing driving dynamics and that's what makes a Fiat.

    I'm pretty sure Fiat knows it's mostly selling due to faithful fiatians and probably it wants to keep it that way. The day Fiat turns to gimickery I'm sure the same people who are today wanting it to become a mass market leader will start looking elsewhere.

    Honestly I just don't care what people think Fiat or make of people who drive a Fiat.... what I do care & do know is when a fiat car drives it does it like a Boss & that's what matters :stig:

    Just my thoughts.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
    PKMohan, varunrtr, prabhjot and 2 others like this.
  5. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    495
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    The short answer is no. What a lot of forum members do not understand is for a lot of people including me - driving dynamics are just one part of the question.

    Someone might put 50% weightage on looks, someone else might put weightage on after sales and a third on re-sale. Since it is their money, they are free to put their own weightages. In this respect Fiat loses the game. No mini-suv, no proper suv, the linea and the punto are dated now (according to common people - I am one of them). These days designs are expected to change like mobile phones - at least every 3 to 4 years. Very few folks might enjoy so called classic looks most won't.

    In the same vein, I find the beetle ugly as an example or even the mini cooper. I will not touch those with a barge pole.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,445
    delhi ncr
    @Raj_pol

    Funny how 'dated' Fiats are still segment-best at: build, ride, handling, steering, braking, safety....and design (esp Evo and Avventura) inside and out, pulsating and charismatic, yet subtle/harmonic and with 'classical lines'. And oh, what of utter utter (good) values-for-money, esp cost of ownership? And those discounts any Fiat-buyer expects as a given, even if they're fans of the brand!

    @kk27 is right, then, i believe: it is very hard for a firm like Fiat to shift the sales needle. This market's been DEFINITIVELY won over for good (in the mass market for hatches, sedans and soon, even small 'suv'-s) by the East Asian companies.

    These firms have dictated the nature of the answer most people give to the question 'What makes a good car?' or 'What is a car brand for?' etc, by their past successes and the corresponding past failures by the likes of Fiat and say Ford at setting/shaping those car-culture criteria.

    Now it is surely TOO late to snatch a meaningful share of sales. Even as competition has only intensified further. Only singular albeit 'expensive' new products (eg., Jeep, Abarths, t-jet hatchbacks, and yeah the likes of the 500X and L, maybe a retro-restyled Linea...) can possibly grow sales profitably, otherwise the East Asian 'gang of 4' rule, already, and they haven't even deployed their full market-domination capability yet, but will have this year and next.

    At least FCA remains one of only 3 firms to make good money from the Indian domestic market (MS, HY and...FCA, only!)

    Hopefully, that means they'll keep lurking and lingering with their characterful, distinctive and distinguished 'niche' offerings, for many a year, and not just as the profitable purveyor for others of engines, gearboxes etc, or as an exporter of cars and engines.
  7. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    495
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot Your idea of looks differs from mine and I assume that you are not some kind of design guru creating stunning creations for folks in Milan, Paris et all.. What you feel is charismatic, I find old. I would argue that the looks of the Elite i20 - stolen or not is actually quite good.

    Same for the Honda city which have been changing it's looks with each version. There are so many other cars from just a looks perspective including say the ford focus, mazta miata or a clio

    If you want eye-catching designs those are.

    Most folks drive cars from office to home and the occasional ride to "native place". Hardly requires a great ride - more so in our kind of rides.

    Safety -Fiat is not segment leader (no airbags bar emotion); Polo is, build on par with Polo - design definitely way way behind.

    See I get nothing out of these arguments - nor you but your statements are not working. Maybe "Fiat" should listen to the masses now and not pseudo enthusiasts.

    p.s. The only enthusiast hatchback in India at an affordable price -point are the Polo GT twins. Nothing else qualifies for that distinction.
  8. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,445
    delhi ncr
    @Raj_pol

    The Polo has a much lighter build than these Fiats. And smaller, thinner tyres, and poorer ride/steering, and....pro-s and con-s abound everywhere, but how come the bad trade-offs on some cars achieve stupendous success from the 'mass public' while decent/good ones from others (eg., Fiat, Tata, Nissan) get punished to excess? Because the 'mass' knows not what it is doing, it is following brands, sub-brands and a sense of 'trust' towards them, more than it is concerned with engineering or engine or design details.

    What do the GT Polo-s that cost lakhs more than an Evo have to with the discussion? Would very much like to compare notes with you on the upcoming Punto t-jet relative to the Polo GT TSi, especially since neither (will) sell much at all.

    The 'masses' (i.e., the statistical mean, average, or median) are the last people fiat should listen to, since they just WILL NOT buy your cars, even if they praise them, even if Fiat caters to their tastes in design and engineering. Of cpourse the mass market in India is ALWAYS right about standards of service, warranties, spares and dealerships, where, though they've improved a lot and are surely more than adequate now by-and-large, Fiat has still a long way to go to shift trust perception and reputation (hearsay).

    The 'masses'....mass, and they've given their IMO final judgment: they want to only buy either Suzuki-s, Hyundai-s, Honda-s, and Toyota-s, with crumbs and leftovers for Ford, Tata and VW. This has to do with brand-pull/trust (if not love, admiration, respect), and only minimally to do with the engineering or design or even pricing of the cars themselves, the latter will always be ok-to-great to a mass buyer's eye.
    asimpleson likes this.
  9. kk27

    kk27 Amatore

    Messages:
    202
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Fiat Enthusiast
    hahahah.. Raj I'm sorry but your comments are quite interesting. I suppose you're one of those who judges cars on it's sales numbers & looks! And if you say Linea Punto is dated.. even the generally biased auto mags agree that most fiat cars have timeless looks. You're talking highly of the Polo which is a very good car no doubt, especially about it's design... well not to take things away but have you seen a Palio carefully?? coz when you keep a old dated Palio next to a Polo I'm sure you'll have your "Aaahaha" moment :).

    And if you think enthusiast car is only suppose to be a car with high BHP then you're sorely wrong my friend. What good is any BHP if it's not supported by a good chasis, suspension & good feedback from the steering? Can you push the car to its limits then? The Polo TSI finds it gasping to keep up even with the 200kgs heavier Linea Tjet on Kasara (personal experience :)). I'm not even talking about my 10yr old palio 1.6 here :p. Like I said earlier An enthusiast is one who wants to drive his car like a boss & it's the drive part which rules over everything else, it's those few characters which he's after... that's an enthusiast, not someone who just wants paper figures of BHP.

    Sorry to stereotype you Raj but most people who go by your lines of thought go purely on the skin of the car, the looks changes over the years in Honda, i20, swift etc were just skin deep. How much did they change in the mechanicals?? We own a i20 in Jaipur and I fully know what the car is and what difference all the i20 refreshes bought in - exactly none!!! The elite though does have changes below but still not a driver's car, obviously for the right reasons since it has it's own lineage & followers to cater to.

    Though yes those who will live their lives on the city roads and for whom car is more of a transport & a status like the mobile then clearly they do have much better choices, which is a given anyway. For them car's resale value is of prime importance & they'll always go that way. Not all brands can enjoy the same market status. None of their fault and it also doesn't mean they become small or incompetent in any way. I find this a lot when people argue with me on my palio or Fiat in general; Once the argument moves away from Sales & After-Sales on the Driving Dynamics, They get defensive with exactly the words of "psuedo enthusiast"!!! I sometimes think they feel less of themselves after labeling me or are simply unable to appreciate that their logic of a car doesn't match mine or us "enthusiasts".

    And if Fiat is here for so many years with a profitable venture just on Engine sales, They're market leaders in Europe, South America, Turkey to name a few, means they do know to make cars. Issue is their design, dynamics etc don't change a whole lot from country to country like the Japs. I've been to the US & France and you'll be amazed to find the Suzuki swift's build on the EU version!!! From which the Indian version is vastly below par. It's basically down to a match between the thought of the company against that of the market. Only when the market will turn the other way like in Motorcycles now will Fiat start seeing success.
    asimpleson and prabhjot like this.
  10. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    495
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @kk27 I do not since I own the Punto EVO :p but a lot of people do. See my statements are from a marketing perspective - if you want to sell you have to give what the market wants.

    I was talking hatchbacks - so in the hatchbacks for all the chassis and what not the Polo GT will beat the Punto hollow any day. The T-jet, if FIAT releases one then we will see. I do not see that happening any time soon.

    You can change the looks and also the mechanicals, can you not?
    adisrini1103 likes this.

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