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What FIAT needs to do to sell more

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Sumit, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    To improve outside viibility, those huge A & B Pillars needs to be trimmed (obviously take out impact beams) to improve side views, Make that dash smaller & bring driver closer to front windshield. Not only it will improve the front visibility but also add to rear seat's space by 20-30 % more. Car would feel very roomy as well being already the biggest in it's category. But also note that driver will be right into the "impact zone" with no beam protection (Pillars are already trimmed for side view visibility). Even by eliminating the forged metal & use some cheap plastic/iron in crumple zones, FIAT would save a lots of weight. All these modifications will save FIAT at least a margin of Rs 100000 (smaller dash, remove all forged sheets & no impact beams) on ex-showroom being all this very costly items. More-over their cars will receive 5 star ratings in reviewr's book & specially yours;-).

    I would pray to FIAT that they hear your wish, full fill it & satisfy all customers. For an odd 1 or 2, they can ignore because it's costing them too much of business.
    One can digest if it's from an uninformed customer but a well informed FIATian to come up with such suggestion is nothing but SARCASM that has to be done like it's a moral duty.
    1 person likes this.
  2. amit

    amit Superiore

    Messages:
    767
    Navi Mumbai
    It's the speakers that are crappy. When I upgraded my ICE, the installer said he was surprised with the performance with just upgraded speaker's , amp's and sub. The HU in his word's was better then the Civic's.

    Not sure what you mean by outside visibility. The driver's seat in higher variant's has height adjust to improve outside visibility for shorter driver's.

    By driving comfort do you mean ergonomics? It's been typical of Fiat's to have poor ergonomics. It can take weeks for me to find that perfect driving position!

    Agreed about the fit & finish although I do feel sometimes other car's get away with much worse fit & finish. Sadly, Fiat's fit & finish has got a lot of publicity so the company has to own up and exceed the industry. The simplest thing Fiat can do is target VW level of fit & finish. Nothing better then benchmarking against the best isn't it?
  3. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    Which ones? The Palio has a seating position that puts both Linea and Punto to sheer shame. :) A Palio with a suspension setup as mature as the Punto would be the perfect car to me.

    Generalisations are hazardous. Ergonomics is too broad a term to be defined just by seating positions.

    Cheers.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  4. sungoa2010

    sungoa2010

    Messages:
    2,878
    Goa
    Enki, Bringing the steering closer to windshield will decrease the caster angle. And what I could under stand is that caster angle is very important factor that decides the cars stability and cornering capabilities. Punto being a long hatch with less space compared to other hatches means they have decided to get maximum handling capabilities at the cost of space, a area where people were criticise Fiat.Otherwise Punto could have got tons of rear space. Logic says why other cars are not a match for fiat in driving dynamics is because they want to compromise space for dynamics. There is no other reason that is coming to mind for such a long gap between wind shield and steering.
    I am not an expert but this is a logical guess rather than an expert opinion.
  5. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    MODS NOTE - Post cleaned out due to unsubstantiated facts. Please refrain from posting information unless you can back it up with concrete facts.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  6. manjunathkl

    manjunathkl Amatore

    Messages:
    61
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.4
  7. amit

    amit Superiore

    Messages:
    767
    Navi Mumbai
    Ergonomics common across Palio, Punto and every Fiat:

    - No tuning between seat base & back rest. Get the seat base into that perfect position and the seat back is either to upright or too relaxed. Till you find that perfect position, you are stretching your arms to adjust the radio & fog lights.

    - Try to press the front power window switch and the rear one goes down because the placement of buttons is all odd. Palio fared better then Punto in this.

    - In Punto & Linea, the steering is too in your face.

    - Even at it's lowest position, the Punto steering is a tad high giving you the feel of reaching up to hold it.

    - I don't have an issue with the pedals but many do about how closely the pedals are placed.

    I have experienced the Palio for 7 years & Punto for 2. I have personally experienced all the Fiat quirk's there are no generalizations in what I speak.
  8. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    italian design :) they have long hands so they placed the power window buttons upfront ...lol.

    i am very well accustomed to the driving position now. i dont find any ergonomic problems apart from the power window switches that too only at front.
  9. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Dear Maderator, Though nothing was claimed except how Punto's existing design may support it's aerodynamics. Since the aerodynamic drag increases wrt. square of the speed, aerodynamics can vastly improve vehicle stability/FE & obviously efficiency. At high speeds, 60% of the engine's power is wasted to balance air drag.

    1. "Inclined frontshield for enhancing Drag coefficient & it also reduces visibility" is mentioned in the attached URL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient)

    2. Engine bay's underbody cover can reduce the drag upto 2%
    (2012 Honda Insight - Review | Hybrid Cars)

    3. I tried to check the Cd for Grande Punto, in most cases it is 0.30 whereas i also find one case where it is 0.31.
    For other cars that are sold in India, Air Drag coefficient is mentioned below:
    Swift: 0.32
    Hyundai i20: 0.33
    VW Polo: 0.32
    Nissan Micra: 0.33

    Hence Punto is no doubt, best in aerodynamics on date despite of being quite old design (even 1990-99 Punto's were having Cd = 0.30, For details pls refer Vehicle Coefficient of Drag List - EcoModder

    Actually FIAT can't go wrong with Aerodynamics, Why? because Ferrari invented the concept of Air Drag reduction with the first ever WING on their F1 car in 1960:p
  10. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    So have i for 6.5 years and all i can say about your observation on the "poor ergonomics" of the Palio is-:confused: :confused

    In the Palio the centre console was actually shaped towards the driver to aid functionality , and ergonomics. Can be a segment first feature in that era.

    But, to each his own.

    Cheers.

    ---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

    Dear ENKI, that is a good start. Although i will not comment on the correctness of the values/ data you posted but it's a good beginning nonetheless.

    Hoping to see more constructive contribution from your end.

    Cheers.

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