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VW faces billions of $$ in fines for cheating in tests

Discussion in 'Non FIAT Cars and two wheelers' started by selwyn.a, Sep 21, 2015.

  1. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

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    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    If they really want to check any manufacturer in INdia the first and fore most should be Nisssan and Renault 1.5dci and then Ford 1.5 .They won't pass even Euro 1. God knows how are they passing Euro 3
    prabhjot likes this.
  2. limraj

    limraj Superiore

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    Trivandrum
    Linea 1.3
    Found it. It is for 2.0 TDI engine. So, Beetle, Passat, Jetta and Audi A3s between 2009 to 2015 are likely to have the cheat software in.

  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,453
    delhi ncr
    It seems there's NO problem in India with emissions AT ALL, and so where's the need for 'cheating devices'?

    Nevermind that we are the biggest, in fact the only, diesel-dominated market in the world (outside of Europe).

    Delhi, the world's greenest megapolis, ALSO has among the filthiest air/automotive smogs in the world!

    Carry on, don't you know that 'sab chalta hai'?? The automotivemag-certified 'refined' Hyundai diesels have co2 emissions almost as bad as the prehistoric Toyota ones on the Liva and Etios....

    Apparently, judging from the response to VW's skullduggery, other parts of the world have norms, that are on pain of punishment, on such matters, ACTUALLY taken VERY seriously by a myriad of actors in the market-ecology, not merely the regulators or the police, even ordinary consumers/citizens.

    Ah well, Sigh (and so I breathe in the untold small particulate matter and NOx etc fumes that pass for delhi's hawa). And a cough plus a wheeze, too.
  4. bharath

    bharath Regolare

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    328
    Coimbatore
  5. jumu

    jumu Superiore

    Messages:
    969
    Chennai
    VW is one of the most arrogant of auto manufacturers who believe that they know what the people want, a feeling that they have had since the success of the Beetle which was known as the peoples car. They were quite stubborn to shift to Fiat developed common rail diesel tech always believing that their Pumpe Deuse tech injection were great products. They were always struggling for emissions with the inefficient PD engines. Probably this is what led them to develop this cheat software fully exploiting the loop hole that most testing is done at idling .Now they buy their CRDI pumps from Bosch which bought it out of Fiat during their crisis times in the 2000s. Though with the current bosch pumps, they did not need this cheat software, they were fully committed to it as they were able to concentrate on power and other parameters of the of the engine as at Idle this engine would always be a saint of an engine conforming to any regulation challenge that can be thrown at it

    VW sure should have been maintaining one of the most secret design and vendor teams when it comes to this software which was masking even their own employees intelligence . Not a single whistle blower all these years and they were awarded a few times for the emission levels!

    These engines while meeting emission levels were also wowing the users with good power as the fuel was richer. World scale cheating by those who were supposedly setting standards in the automotive world and also had ambitious targets to be number one automaker.

    It should also be remembered that that the current CEO Winterkorn was born out of a protracted and often nasty board room battle with the ousted CEO. Was it an inside expose false flagged ? I hear that winterkorn has quit.

    Important lesson for life will be. Be humble, Do your job well and to your strengths and limitations, Dont be arrogant and Dont cheat. One day you will be exposed

    Abdul
    bharath and prabhjot like this.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,453
    delhi ncr
    @jumu

    VW and Skoda's 1.5/1.6litre diesel on the Indian Polo and Vento are part of the exact same engine family, all of whose members, all 11 million of them have this 'cheat device' installed.

    Now, the EPA et al say that the emissions violation or cheating is from 10 to as much as 40 times.

    i.e., EVEN with our laughably low NOx and spm emissions standards for diesels (and petrols) they are likely to be in a 'cheating' violation!

    Even IF they have not actually used a different 'tune' in the 'cheating device software' to deliberately game EVEN the the lowly Indian emissions regime.

    The Indian regulators, such as they are, MUST put VW (and Audi, Skoda as well as Porsche) India on the spot on this, immediately, before they have a chance to 'cover up' or make 'trust me' denials.

    btw, and as a related OT aside: I have been wondering why Hyundai, otherwise known to offer gadget and 'feature' loaded cars does not offer a digital fuel efficiency, distance-to-empty or instantaneous-mileage tripmeter readout MID feature on either the i20 elite or the Creta or the Verna. It is, to me at least, likely that they're trying ensure the severe mileage shortfall (short of their claimed ARAI figures) do not get exposed. AutoBild India in their comparo between the Avventura and the i20 Active found that on their identical testruns the 90 hp mjd gave about 2 odd km/l lower than the arai figure, while the Hyundai shortfall was 5-6 km/l. @dadsaheb , what's your sense?

    also btw:

    FCA USA as well as FCA Italy have formally and publicly stated that none of their cars, petrol or diesels, employ any emissions-test 'cheating devices', yesterday and today.

    Apparently FPT/mjd diesels showed a 10% higher-than-permited NOx emission in the same original comparative test that began the exposure of VW, which had devitions of upto 40times. BMW's very expensive diesels fared best.

    If all this is true, suffice to say that FIAT, the inventor of the modern common-rail diesel engine, still makes the best diesel engines in the world. The new all-aluminium 2.2 litre multijet diesel that is on the european Jeep Cherokee and will be on the Alfa Giulia, and is already in Maserati Ghibli is pretty much the cutting-edge diesel there is, of this class.

    FIAT/FCA should consider going after VW, and maybe even BMW and Mercedes, in advertizements on the matter of diesel-engine-quality, esp of emissions, perhaps in some cheeky way or other, say at the launch of the Alfa Giulia 2.2 mjd launch.

    Time to 'hit below the belt' in advertizing, and not only in Europe. India, too?!!
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2015 ---
    This is the sort of speculative reportage that suddenly seems all-too-plausible, although hardly likely at all: Marchionne and Elkann/Agnelli-s going for a 'white knight' takeover of sorts of the VW group, perhaps even with the cooperation of the Porsche+Piech owner-families. And from msn.com, no less, in the US.

    Ha!

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...ns-door-to-fiat-takeover/ar-AAeFCfW?li=AA4Zjn
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
    bharath, jumu and ramjn like this.
  7. jumu

    jumu Superiore

    Messages:
    969
    Chennai
    OK..Help me understand this.
    Volkswagen lies about its EPA emission tests..on 480000 cars. No one died. Potential $18 billion penalty. Because they mucked up the air.
    Now, GM, had a defective ignition switch - known problem..and a bigger scandal.. 123 people died! Lives lost !! $900 million..and the federal govt will not press criminal charges on GM executives.
    Guess you can get away with murder....
  8. limraj

    limraj Superiore

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    915
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    @prabhjot, what is the source for the above info? Please share.
    I understand that EA189 is for 2.0L TDI engines.
  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    2,453
    delhi ncr
  10. limraj

    limraj Superiore

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