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Timing adjustment in MJD

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by Sat-Chit-ananda, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    1,900
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    @Italia-Linea: A query here, the explaination you provided makes perfect sense on the Cam chain and the self adjusting Cam chain tensior. However, what causes the ignition advance or retard that is explained in the above posts?
  2. Wait for updates on this same page,your doubts will be cleared. I experienced what i wrote. To say noting can be changed!! Once the oil flagenis removed cam will be free to extant where cam angle can be varied depending on which posistion the pistons are at at that moment. Tensioner can not correct this as there is angle diffrence between driven and driver pulley.If would like get your car we can retard the timing so that you can experience it yourself.i am sure you will hate driving that car.

    MJD is not something out of world engine,timing can be advanced or retarded based on cam angle at TDC or BDC.
    I donot have always talk about this wait for some time you will see some more posts on this.

    I am not claiming i am ultimate authority on this but only what i experienced with my car and few others.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  3. Timing chains are not new ,they are there with tensioner even engines used in the past. It was possible to alter the timing.
    I understand mechanical contrils are slowly giving way to ecu control but in MJD it is still possible.

    Reson i got into this was knocking sound after timing chain replacement, my mechanic was claiming all controlled by ECU nothing to tune in the process.
    But i had a car that was sluggish to drive and i did not just went to one mechanic even visited KHT.

    After lot of discussion,i and Harish decided to give a try few times until car felt easy to drive and less noise at the idling.
    This was possible because Harish had a open mind to listen and think,if he was sticking to his earlier stand ,I would have sold my car by this time.you may have not seen the posting here.

    Next time this process is done on a car i will try to record a video of the same.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  4. SoumenPaul

    SoumenPaul Regolare

    Messages:
    325
    Bangalore
    For me it was just the opposite. Except the sound rest all deteriorated. FE reduced, power delivery became bad.
    However I feel it was due to the skill or lack of it @ FAS.

    Two mechanic have told me it is due to improper tuning, not knowing much technicality of it I have visited Harish and he did some adjustment.
    Engine sound has reduced, yet to see the other benefits
  5. Here we control only cam angle and injection since Diesel is self ignited, one of the reason why there will be diesel clatter no matter what we do unlike petrol where ignition spark also controlled.
  6. vIjAy_kHaSa

    vIjAy_kHaSa Esperto

    Messages:
    1,353
    Panchkula
    How to time 1.3 MJD

    Attached Files:

    1 person likes this.
  7. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    1,900
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    I think you got my question wrong. I know that the diesel is self ignited and is different from how the advance or retard is done on the petrol engine. What causes the ignition advance or retard in a diesel engine? Is it the chain or the wrong installation during the cam chain being changed?
  8. vIjAy_kHaSa

    vIjAy_kHaSa Esperto

    Messages:
    1,353
    Panchkula
    @nkrishnap.
    Once the chain tensioner reaches its maximum limit the chain develops slack and that causes timing problems. Till the time tensioner have margin of adjustment timing won't change a bit as set by the installer though the installer can mess while installing if cam lock tool is not straight before locking cam.
    Timing can't change with tensioner in place because it can move only in one side i.e. toward the chain and always keeps the chain real tight. It can be moved back only after chain is removed and the piston comes out fully, then it have to be pressed hard to get it in original position and then locked using a pin it is removed after tensioner is installed in car, chain installed and timing set.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  9. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    1,900
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    Ok, how much slack does the chain need to have to cause the timing to vary. Wanting to understand if the increase in pitch is really what is causing the timing to change. The cam chain tensioner should be having sufficient adjustment range to take care of this. If it goes beyond the adjustment range, I can see it becoming noisy and the chain giving away than the timing going haywire.
  10. Vijay,

    This PDF doc you shared is spot on on the procedure.Hope people don't say I am providing false information.

    VS4884 Crankshaft Timing Position Tool (engine out of vehicle)
    Should it be necessary to remove the engine out of the vehicle, and disconnect it
    from the gearbox, to carry out repair work, then the VS4881 Flywheel Locking Pin
    cannot be used to position the crankshaft in its timed position.
    VS4884 Positioning Tool is used in place of the VS4881 to establish and lock the
    crankshaft with the flywheel removed (Fig.10).
    VS4884 should be secured in place with at least 3 bolts.
    When ready to re-install the engine and setting the engine in timed position, the
    crankshaft is ’locked’ with VS4884, and the camshafts ’set’ with VS4771 Setting
    Tools. The crankshaft gear and camshaft sprocket should be ’free to turn’ and
    tension off the chain
    . Tighten the crankshaft pulley flange centre bolt first (counterhold
    with VS4882), followed by the camshaft sprocket bolt
    . Ensure that the chain
    tensioner plunger is applying tension to the chain rail, as detailed earlier.
    Once the engine is installed, the engine timing should be re-checked - refer to
    "Checking timing".


    - - - Merged Post - - -

    You have a point there, I am not very sure of this but, many forums and tech site talk about chain causing retardation after long run, I guess there is no clear answer to this question.
    1 person likes this.

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