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Discussion in 'Hangout' started by nk4FIAT, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    The thing is - FIAT don't know how to market their stuff.

    Who even knows that the Indian 1.4 FIRE has PDA ( Port DeActivation). In other words - variable length intake manifold. The Indian market didn't get the VVT though.

    Look how everyone markets their wares - Honda slaps a i-vtec badge everywhere. Toyota does it, so does Chevy etc etc. Look how Beat diesel was shown as having some insanely futuristic innovations in the print ads.

    FIAT should've bombarded the market. But didn't.

    So any XYZ thinks that FIAT doesn't even have basic features since it wasn't advertised. Some people still think Punto petrol has Indica's engine. :(

    It is only recently that FIAT has had some visibility in the marketing sphere. Let's hope for more.
    1 person likes this.
  2. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Gurjinder, They have also refrained from launching their latest products at least in petrols.
    They simply lost the chance to bring multiair 135 Bhp & Twin-air 85 Bhp in India.
    God knows how they planning on petrol front to counter with 30 yrs old engines to today's latest by every manufacturer.
    They have already lost for diesel, they will fast lose their advantage on petrol if didn't launch in near future.
  3. sungoa2010

    sungoa2010

    Messages:
    2,878
    Goa
    If the 1.2 ivtec comes in Punto I don't think it will do any wonder in Punto compared to 1.2 FIRE. Actually the low end toque of 1.2 is very much required to pull the heavy punto.
    Instead if 1.2 FIRE is given to lighter Honda it will will make it more agile than its on ivtec. In the higher side also 1.2 FIRE is a monster. We have seen it in our forum also. Simply comparing two engines with one on a heavy stuff and other on a light one is not proper.

    Similarly comparing Tjet with 1.5 ivtec is a crime.With Tjet the lighter honda cannot stay on road it will simply fly. ivtec is a very good engine compared to other petrol but Tjet is a different stuff altogether.
  4. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Sure Sungoa, Fire compares tip to toe with VTEC & it speaks volume about expertise being such an old effort. It's subjective as one may call VTEC as slightly better or FIRE as almost on par with VTEC. The point is somewhere else. FIRE wins if you are even comparing it to with latest gen Honda effort, it shouldn't be compared logically at all:D.

    I think best shortcut for a brand is to look different with distinguishing products & people will be forced to notice. How about slightly detuned Twinair (for mileage say 70 bhp) & fit that in Punto active. That should make 30-35 kmpl on highway & 20-25 kmpl in city. This would compare head-on with diesels for fuel expenses, market it properly & it will be like moon among the countless stars. Instead of FIAT chasing the people with a ferrari/maserati bill-board in their hand, convincing them like "sir, we are actually a good brand, we make Ferrari too:mrgreen:." Once people will chase a different product, they will educate themselves for their own good.
    At present only advantage FIAT have over ordinary is that their Punto/Linea are better cars in dynamics & bla bla, nothing else. Since FIAT is a usual sight on roads now, I think FIAT is taking right steps too. Having said that it still lacks a move or two in their strategy that will make their task hell of an easier & quicker one (say within 1-2 yrs if it would take 5 yrs otherwise).
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  5. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    It’s already known that Maserati plans on bringing a new baby Quattroporte in 2013, but German magazine, Autobild, has uncovered some more news on the future model. According to them, Maserati is also preparing a diesel version for the new model, internally known as the Maseratina. The diesel version will be powered by a new V6 diesel engine with more than 300 HP and 516 lb-ft torque. It is still unknown whether or not the new engine will also be used in the next generation Quattroporte.

    Did you notice 516 lbft of torque with a single Turbo... Ouuuchhhh::OO!!
    It almost there with BMW-3.2 ltr tri-turbo, 546 lbft but with a single turbo.:cool:
    Maserati Maseratina kommt 2013 mit Dieselmotor - autobild.de
  6. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    The BMW N57S is a 3 litre straight six.

    More than one turbos are not used to bump up power outbut ; they are used to enhance throttle response. That's the purpose behind multiple turbos.

    Cheers.
  7. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Lol, So adding turbo only increases throttle response without any power/torque gain. Compare any twin turbo & single turbo (not twin scroll or twin stages) variants & let the inputs come through. I am waiting for Maserati Twin Turbo Power/torque figures.Can i bet torque would be better at least with 10-15% jump in power;)?By the way, VW has released the details of their new TDIs. 2.0 ltr now makes 190bhp instead of 140. The new 3.2 ltr V6 TDI engine has been equipped with a two-stage turbocharger group that delivers a maximum boost pressure of up to 3.2 bar. This allows the engine to deliver a total of 313 HP from 3,900-4,500rpm and a peak torque of 479 lb-ft available from 1,450 to 2,800rpm. Earlier it was 240 bhp with single stage turbo. A6 3.0 BiTDI quattro sedan will sprint from 0 to 60 mph in just 5.1
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  8. Cinju

    Cinju Esperto

    Messages:
    1,333
    Trivandrum
    Thanks fellows. I was really under the impression that FIATs in India are running a very outdated engine as I have been hearing this name FIRE from the UNO days & I did not happen to see any change in the technology names. For other manufacturers they brought VVT, Ivtec etc etc. T-Jet is an exception here. But when it comes to marketing their technology FIAT is a lazy bum.
  9. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    You were quite impressed that the V6 diesel to be used in the Maserati produces 516 ft-lb with only a single turbo, whereas BMW requires three turbo to put out 546lb-ft (according to you). As if BMW could not have gotten this much torque with a single turbo.

    Anyone can get any X amount of hp and torque with a single turbo. Look at those Supras putting out in excess of 1000 lb-ft torque with just a single turbo.

    So, BMW used three turbos in the N57S with one objective in mind - instantaneous throttle response. And not to win some power wars or anything. Just because one engine is putting out 500+ lb-ft with one turbo and the other with three turbo's does not make them comparable. Look for differences in objectives of engine design rather than comparing figures.

    Try and see things from a broader perspective.

    Cheers.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  10. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    So Maserati will be slouch with no instant throttle.
    Modifications make Dodge RAM pick-up truck make 1000 hp with smaller engines than Veyron. We are not going there.
    Let's see how frugal it is reported & what compression ratio it maintains? What if such a torque is maintained with less compression & engine is even more frugal? That would make it clear whether engine is overstressed or not.
    You are holding credit here dear. Thing is Diesels are getting scary whether it's VW, FIAT or BMW.
    By the way MJD-2 delivers 90% of torque @1250 rpm for small cars like Punto, Giulietta.
    It's diesel for a Maserati, almost a ferrari. Expect some dream shattering stuff:).They are absolute mad with know hows.

    ---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------

    What broader perspective you are referring? I am comparing BMW to a Maserati. The comparison is not even fare. BMW is a kid here & even BMW-CEO will accept it. Perspective is already ridiculously broader:mrgreen:.
    Be rest assured about instant throttle in diesel maserati even if it is a non-turbo diesel.

    FYI, these are not official stats but just journalists rumors.Maserati & Ferrari have the habits to drop jaws of journalists.
    Would you believe me if i say Ferrari 458 Italia's Non-Turbo 4.5 ltr V8 petrol delivers 23 Mpg (UK) with 562 bhp & 400 lbft. Without a turbo. Naturally aspirated pure petrol head with a service interval of 18000 kms & specific output of 125 bhp/ltr. Do you know new F70 enzo is reported to have 3.8 ltr V8 Twin Turbo with over 850 bhp with even longer service interval & better mileaage than Italia:mrgreen:? They shrinks the perspective mate, people follow them!
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012

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