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TFI Official "Aftermarket" In Car Entertainment (ICE) upgrade guide v2

Discussion in 'In Car Entertainment' started by PaddleShifter, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. PaddleShifter

    PaddleShifter Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,697
    Chandigarh
    Grande Punto 1.3
    MDF spacer rings. I am myself using 6.5" speaker in the rear doors. I will try to find photos and post here as soon as possible. Stock speaker in rear door is 5.25" to be precise but that doesn't mean that the space is not meant for 6.5" speaker.

    No. Not at all because I am like that too. :) Everything I am sharing here is on the basis of my time spent on reading up many discussions and guides. When it comes to any upgrade, it is best to discuss it as much as possible.

    The typo was from me. I mistyped 3690 instead of 3590. You can get these from the place where you wish to install the set up. You can also buy it online in case you plan to install it yourself. Let me share some pics and links.

    The antenna adapter looks like the following. Image sourced from net as I didn't click pics during installation. Cost around Rs50-150 in local market.

    ISO to DIN antenna adapter.jpg

    The ISO adapter cable looks like the following. It costs around Rs150-300 I guess though not sure.

    ISO converter adapter.jpg


    Why do we need this ISO adapter cable??

    When we remove the factory fitted stereo, the wiring harness by FIAT is the standard ISO cable that looks like this (look at the black harness cable with multiple pins):

    Stock ISO harness.JPG


    BUT, the aftermarket stereo comes with a non standard input pins such as the one shown below (look at the slot on the stereo just above the text 7590):

    Stereo rear.jpg

    They even supply a cable for it in the stereo box.

    Cable supplied with HU.jpg

    The black end of this cable goes inside the port meant for it on the rear of the stereo. But look at its other side. There are just wires on that side.

    Remote sense cable.jpg

    These wires can not be connected to the harness present in the FIAT Grande Punto and thats where this ISO adapter harness comes into play. The wires of the harness coming from stereo are connected with relevant wires of the ISO adapter wiring harness and this further connects to the stock wiring harness.

    ISO converter adapter.jpg

    I hope the images are self explanatory. :) I finish the post with the image of a stereo panel.

    Stereo panel.jpg
    kunwar.g and nkrishnap like this.
  2. kunwar.g

    kunwar.g Superiore

    Messages:
    522
    Gurgaon
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Very informative and those pictures help a lot. Basis what i have read in some thread on this forum the power cable has some challenge and the power has to be drawn from other source that can switch on and off depending on the ignition of the car i.e the cig lighter socket. Will that still need to be done even with the ISO adapter ?
  3. PaddleShifter

    PaddleShifter Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,697
    Chandigarh
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Yes, that needs to be done. Its not difficult at all though. Its even mentioned in the user manual of the stereos found online.

    Basically, the installer will connect the relevant wire from the harness coming out from the rear of the stereo and connect it to a fuse in the fuse box. I will try to post a photo within a day. Just make sure that no wire is cut during installation.
  4. fiatcrazy

    fiatcrazy Amatore

    Messages:
    55
    NEW DELHI
    Grande Punto 1.2
    >>> This link says different story than the Indian buyers mindset ? Check it out <<<

    another link about SUBs >> http://car-subwoofer-review.toptenreviews.com/

    Both the pages having Pioneer Champion Pro Series on top, which are not widely available in Pioneer India & local stores.

    But at number two Infinity REFERENCE ????

    Paddleshifter & Asimpleson, need your expert comments

    In this comparision followings are also included : Dont understand, what is going wrong here ( SQ, SQ, SQ) ?

    C0-axial comparision :
    3. JBL GTO
    4. Kenwood KFC
    5. Polk db - this is not cheap in India
    6. Sony XS - Sony is in comparision list ????
    7. Pioneer D - Series
    8. KIcker KS
    9. Polk DXi
    10. Rockford Fosgate Prime - ????? :mad:
    11. JL Audio Evolution
    12. Rockford Fosgate Power - ????? :mad:

    Subs Comparision having followings :

    3. JBL GTO
    4. Kicker CompRT - 4th ?
    5. Alpine
    6. Boston Acoustics
    7. Polk DXi - :hungover:
    8. JL Audio W1v3 - :oops:
    9. Rockford Punch - :rolleyes:
    10. MTX AudioFPR

    :singing::singing::singing: this industry in India is also tricky...
  5. PaddleShifter

    PaddleShifter Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,697
    Chandigarh
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @fiatcrazy , lets keep things a bit simple here as the idea of this thread is to have a place where people new to these things can learn most things at one place in the simplest of manners. There are threads for comparing brands and speakers already running (e.g. ICE considerations thread).

    The first thing I saw when I opened the link was this image that says that the speakers are featured there from one of their sponsors. Wouldn't a review on a website be a bit biased if the product belongs to one of the sponsor? :)

    755_1.jpg
    fiatcrazy likes this.
  6. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @PaddleShifter, could you kindly push these and many other posts here that are too technical on something like "ICE Gyaan" or "ICE further technical discussion" thread. Lots of excessively technical thread can be moved there to keep threads like yours cleaner. I hope @fiatcrazy does not mind.

    EDIT: we can continue these discussions there. These might be useful or fruitful too for some.

    Thanks,
    PaddleShifter and fiatcrazy like this.
  7. fiatcrazy

    fiatcrazy Amatore

    Messages:
    55
    NEW DELHI
    Grande Punto 1.2
    @PaddleShifter : Thiss is better that they mentioned it Sponsored. But if you gone through it, the sponsored speaker ranked 3rd,

    The speakers are electromagnetically things. surely production/assembly line & raw material advancement involve in these. but my concern was while considering a decnt ICE in our cars, we must compare all available options. & if we can see these tables in India the higher cost speakers & subs are ranked low in this website. Also the thread you started to discuss here the upgrade thing.

    & Many of us here, are looking to get decent sound without doing hit & trial exercise, & if possible we all are not very much interested in change of stock HUs, the problem with HUs are :

    1. No Aux support can be made in some Bosch/Delphi Grundig F199 ( post 2011) units ( in Blaupunkt its very easy ) . Bluetooth & USB can be linked to Aux so not mentioning it as a new point.
    2. Sound of stock system is good for Gazals & Qawwalies (Narrow Mid or vocal range ). but not good for low & high frequencies,

    the basic reason of point no. two relates with Stock Speakers & not with stock HU. ( not trying here to confuse the people ), but many here are looking decent sound & it can be tried first - hopefully some of us got sastisfied after the door speaker upgrade & using 6 x 9 on the parcel tray ???

    @asimpleson : being an expert you can give while to the reviw on the site, ( biasing is one thing ) but i feel some important factor iss missing or hidden in their honest review. all cheap speakers are ranked higher than some good high quality speakers. My concern is are we all Indian paying all of our hard earned money to importers ? or import duties on these are different from country of origin. its justa plain question of VFM.

    PS: We all Punto /Linea / Palio owners are categorized in college going students, freshers in a company or in a business, middle level employees or in top management or owners or some good business. One thing is clear we all love MUSIC but taste of each category are definately different & within the category too.

    Iss there any method that we audition all these speakers somewhere without wasting much time ? its only word of mouth, for we are here writing and reading the others.
  8. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Thanks @fiatcrazy for you kindness, but I am no expert, perhaps a bit experienced is all I can say with some degree of confidence. :)

    The term here is "faithful" sound reproduction. What is faithful? Faithful to the artist/s, the sound recording engineers intent, the mastering, the media and such. Any speaker or head-unit, amp combination that can play good audio with clear levels of lows, mids and highs without too much or extra "colour" is a good system. It may at times mean an instrument sounding good on speakers may not sound true or as authentic to listening to the real thing alive. Some audiophiles may go to extreme lengths to just experience the "truth" of a particular sound or instrument or vocal. The extra details and sound-stage unfortunately come at a premium.

    A good sound system should produce this coded information perfectly or as truly as possible. Therein lies the challenge of the hardware system and the audio engineers or installers.

    One simple way is to go through online reviews of hardware, speakers , amps, HUs and find a product that is appreciated by a good many no. of discerning music listeners. You can tell authenticity of some of them by their reviews alone. Quite often you will find that these high quality hardware can be tweaked and satisfies the taste of some very intense listeners of music. The effect of good music or trance is like dope and can take some to a very different world of their own. Hence the 'madness' on spending.. :)

    The question you raised about audition is very true. Not many get to audition good quality sound in some high end sound installations. Then again "Good sound" may not necessarily cost a bomb either. You are correct about the import duty costs, but there is hardly anything that we can do about it, except perhaps fly them in some luggage from abroad if and when possible and save some substantial money.

    The auditions available in shops are on a shelf and not even enclosured at times and give a very vague idea of the sound reproduction ability of some good quality speakers. So once again, search for recommendations depending on one's budget which needs to be flexible to some extent, else making a 'good sounding' sytem can be quite difficult, sometimes impossible.

    Here is what I very recently recommended to a friend who had a generous budget to fit in his SX4. He is a registered member of this forum though not active since his plans to upgrade to Fiat are postponed indefinitely.

    a) Soundkill+Vibe audio branded dampening sheets (comparable to dynamat extreme)
    Double layer insulation on all four doors, plus 3 sides of the boot, including boot door.
    b) Infinity Kappa 6.5 for front.
    c) Polk Db6501 in the back.
    d) 2 Cadence Monoblock Amplifiers (momentum 3000.1)
    e) 2 Cadence Momentum Subwoofers - DVC - 2ohm stable capable @600W RMS each.
    f) One 4/2/1 Blaupunkt 470 DSP amp. (in four channel config.) contains a AD Sigma DSP with active crossover capability.
    g) Lots of high quality RCA wiring from a brand from Netherlands (donno the name)
    h) A 1-Din Kenwood HU with 4volt 3 preouts and with a 24 bit DAC and host of good features including disabling internal HU amplifier..! Model X895.
    i) An expert installer and his team who did a very professional job of install, including providing some good 0AWG power cables, a 1.5F capacitor and some other things like custom MDF board with wrappings and a custom good quality dual sub box.

    Do I need say how it sounds? Not just loud capable, but also very flexible and adaptable to a wide genre of music. The quality difference is very noticeable and every single person had the Wow expression on their face and a big smile as soon as the test tracks were played.

    We will later discuss on speaker selection as you have mentioned. Meanwhile you could try going through specs of these hardware and we could list some critical points in the audio system selection.
  9. kunwar.g

    kunwar.g Superiore

    Messages:
    522
    Gurgaon
    Grande Punto 1.3
    While I have almost finalised on the HU, selecting the speakers without auditioning them and just based on online reviews is a hurricane task. But have some questions. How can we make a combination of speakers ( front vs rear ) from different companies. I was thinking the best bet is to have it from the same brand. For now think will go for front component and rear co-axial ( both 6.5 inch, but only once get hold of someone who does stock MDF spacer rings ). Now I did find some on Snapdeal and after reading reviews online have shoftlisted the available and prefered options available. Of these basis online review getting inclined towards Hertz speaker. Any inputs would be helpful. ( if this is not the right place to ask such feedback/opinion please feel free to let me know )

    Also, if I get the Hertz speakers can i power them with JBL - GT X646 or Blaupunkt - GTA 470 SF 4 Ch or JBL - GX-A644SI (all fall within the 6K range and in my budget ). Also what is the meaning of amp being bridgable ? Some reviews say the Blaupunkt is more balanced unlike the JBL that is very high on bass. I may add the amp later or at one go depending on budget. Need to think about damping also.

    speakers.jpg
  10. fiatcrazy

    fiatcrazy Amatore

    Messages:
    55
    NEW DELHI
    Grande Punto 1.2
    What I can say in short for VFM ( or tight budget ) :

    1. Sound Deadning of Front Doors are very important. Get all car if possible specially the Japanese Korean cars having very thin sheet metal. ( Even two layers on SX4 is not enough whereas 1 layer if ok for Punto.)
    2. If we ever plan to put an AMP for Front Door Speakers, the Components must be of atleast 60Watts rms ratings. Infinity, Polk, Focal seems best for this purpose.
    3. Same brand will not necessarily give the VFM, as Fad can be adjusted from HU, & also there is nothing a Component System & Coaxial produces the matched quality. to keep it simple go for good components & budget co-axs or Same brand same series.
    4. For the Amp : Some of the Forum members uses Local Amp ( Taiwan, China, India, Alpine India, Xenos etc. ), dont know their experience but low end branded ( JBL, Sony, Blaupunkt ) can be compared, its easy to Audition of these by replacing in your car. The only thing you have to take services from a big stockist, so they can satisfy your needs by giving trials. ( it may cost you about Rs.500~Rs.1000 extra imo ).
    5. Infinity is a must consider brand for the Speakers & Subs.

    All of the parts are important in a music system, so either spend time and/or money. Get audition in old cars of your friends, Keep in touch with your experiences.

    Request please share your experience even if you're done with good, bad or best system.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2014 ---
    @asimpleson : Import duty :

    My concern with import duty & other commercial terms was with selecting a speaker is not as simple. like the table post by Kunwar.g above the table is sort by cost, the higher the cost must be considered as best, on that Excel sheet the RMS handling capacity and other important parameters are not considered ( people say they are not that technical o only go either by recommandation or by cost comes under their budget ).

    As all these speakers are being import in India, the cost of these may depends on large factors instead of SQ. So trails & auditions are the only option left, but that's even not a easy task too.

    Also each car profile is different, in cars like Punto, as we all disscussing about door speakers, the area for a component to produce good sound is nil when the glass of window going on bottom position. Did anyone experienced the Shallow mount components fro Puntos front door.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014

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