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Sudden loss of power while overtaking

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by Rituraj, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Extended Idling and EGR failures..!

    Most EGR valve failures are experienced in vehicles that are subjected to extended idle times. The operating temperature of a diesel engine, unlike a gas engine, will be reduced during idle. Since a diesel is a compression ignition engine, the combustion process loses efficiency at idle and therefore tends to create more particulates.

    A gas engine is ignited by a spark plug, so idling a gas engine will have little to no effect on the amount of particulates generated.

    Quote from http://www.powerstrokediesel.com/docs/EGR_Valve_Info_Sheet.pdf
    1 person likes this.
  2. bhai

    bhai Esperto

    Messages:
    1,183
    Ahmednagar
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    I also ask same questions. I had cleaned EGR,Inlet Manifold & intercooler of my former 75 BHP at some 35000 KM.

    I encountered this problem before 1st service of my 75 HP Punto.

    Then after doing lot of homework I insisted dealer to open inlet manifold & intercooler.
    Inlet manifold was clogged with lot of sludge like 2 stroke silencer of TVS Suzuki & 2 stroke yamaha.

    All parts cleaned. You won't believe no differance in engine performance. There was still lack of low end grunt & irritating problem of powerloss.There was still powerloss after cleaning all parts.

    Then I encountered same problem to my brand new 90HP at 3500 KM.

    In my case problem of powerloss but no ECU error at both times only within first 4000 KM in brand new MJD.

    Now I am replacing EGR in extended warrantee. Let's see what happens.

    P.S. - IMHO sludge is created due to excess oil in intercooler.
    Excess oil in intercooler+dry carbon= Sludge.
    & excess oil may be due to faulty oil seal of turbo bearing. I had checked intake pipe of my DDiS after clocking 80000 KM. I found that there was very much small amount of oil in pipe coming from intercooler. Qty. of oil just equal to hair oil that we use. Very thin layer of oil.

    At other side pipe coming from intercooler of MJD was very much greasy.
  3. Arun1100

    Arun1100 Regolare

    Messages:
    442
    Bangalore
    So, whats the final resolution for this issue being faced erratically by many? Anything solid found?

    Rituraj: Whats the present state of your issue?
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2014
    2 people like this.
  4. Red90hp

    Red90hp

    Messages:
    9
    Bangalore
    Hi guys,

    I own a 90hp Punto and have been facing the power loss issue for over a year. KHT was not able to detect the issue, and I approached Vecto as well. They too were not abel to detect the issue, so I wrote to FIAT and the said they will fix it and i need to visit the FASS again. So while on a saturday I was driving, the power loss resurfaced and there was no power delivery till the rpm reached 3200 ( which the car was very slow to reach), i drove directly to Vecto motors and did not switch off the engine. The technician drove the car and told me its the EGR issue and he disconnected the same and told me to drive for a week. He said he will replace the EGR coming week.

    My question is what if the problem re-occurs? Is disconnecting the EGR a permanent solution? will it harm the engine in the long term. By long term I mean over a lakh kms..

    By the way. the cars response has improved atleast 20%, have not checked the FE though..

    The car is giving me sleepless nights. Its clocked 38k and is 2.5 years old.. 2011 model

    would be great if we can address this issues and come up with some solution..
  5. Anup

    Anup Regolare

    Messages:
    303
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Hi @Red90hp,

    Disconnecting EGR value does no harm to the car but to the Environment, it is ment to keep Pollution under control.

    Changing EGR should solve the problem.

    Also try sticking to Normal Diesel if possible.

    Why don't you try to change your Fuel station to start with to another, try BP outlet from Kasturba Road or off Bridgade Road so see the difference.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  6. Arun1100

    Arun1100 Regolare

    Messages:
    442
    Bangalore
    Is there any issue/design flaw with the EGR? Never heard of such drastic loss of power with non Fiat cars running MJD. If car is out of warranty, how much will the EGQ cost?
  7. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    EGR is for emissions and also has a role to manage combustion temperature amongst few other things, with emissions being the no. one reason for EGR.

    EGR valve can be serviced along with exhaust manifolds etc. if car shows symptoms of weak performance. However, there are many other things that can hamper a vehicle performance which need to be ruled out first.

    Non-Fiat companies a few have been known to cheat on emissions to provide better performance at the cost of polluting the environment. It's best not to discuss that for now. Hope it answers your query. Fiat has kept their systems to european standards, ever since the days of Unos, Palios and Sienas.

    It should cost approx. Rs. 11k including labour charges if EGR needs replacement. We often incur more for labour and spares due to insufficient knowhow by SC personnel and customers both. Ofcourse customers can't be blamed for the same to that extent.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  8. Red90hp

    Red90hp

    Messages:
    9
    Bangalore
    Thank you for your reply Anup, with respect to fuel quality, I fuel only at shell, so do not think fuel quality could be the problem. Nonetheless I will fuel up at one of the two stations you mentioned.
    Am just hoping the changed EGR will solve the issue.If not, I intend to go all out at FIAT.. Have escalated the matter once, if its a design problem , it should be made public.. thats what I feel

    I have had a Palio 1.2 NV ELX for 6 years before this and loved that car as well.

    Actually a disconnected EGR does effect the engine as well. The amount of hot air entering the turbo goes up therby damaging the tubo in the long run. The EGR also regulates the air temp that enters the turbo.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  9. I have come across similar problems with my Punto.. Now the car is in service center and found hell lot of problems.. Bill has reached 65k and still on.. I will update the list of parts with details once the service is complete. Loss of power is due to leakage.. you may have replace the hose pipe which is connected to the air filter(this part is backordered and I'm still awaitng on it.. it's been 20 days since I ordered).. My Punto has done a great job and done 1,38,000 Kms.. I love my Punto..
    3 people like this.
  10. shams

    shams Esperto

    Messages:
    2,388
    Bangalore
    Wow that's a lot of kms ..pls post your ownership review in appropriate thread..
    Also if possible pls let us know the breakup of estimate for your current service.

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