1. Introducing the smashing new Team FIAT T-Shirt !! To order yours click here : Team FIAT T-Shirt

Sudden loss of power while overtaking

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by Rituraj, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. Root Cause of the Problem - DETAILED Explanation

    abdul ..Quantity is Not Quality .POland is Not Germany .Its just a Low Cost Manufacturing Eastern European.Country.
    This is a Very Serious MANUFACTURING DEFECT & Very Bad Engineering.
    The Fiat Service Center Readymade Answer "Its Due to Polluted Diesel " in Petrol Pump is Polish,Italian Bullshit .
    Why Do More Powerful Sophisticated BMW Engines dont have this Problem ?

    "If you want a thing Done Well, do it yourself. ~ Napoleon Bonaparte"










    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
    5 people like this.
  2. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Linea 1.3
    Leading777 thanks for this extra effort of annotation and reposting the images. A picture is worth a thousand words and it's particularly helpful to understand in this case.

    A quick question, do you think that periodical cleaning of the clogging issue can ensure relatively trouble free performance? Powerloss issue as mentioned earlier in various posts can be a problem in both city and highway traffic and especially serious in an overtaking situation. Because design workarounds would also mean testing which could probably need lab environments and extensive testing with data collection.

    The quickfix of disengaging the EGR solenoid coupler is a good short term solution as you mentioned, but it will be good to see one that involves EGR activated in loop as well, as a permanent solution.
    1 person likes this.
  3. First Every Car & Motorcyle Circulates Exhaust Naturally .....How ? The Inlet Valves (Whether 2 or 4) are bigger than Exhaust Valves .Thats why u'll see carbon deposit even on Non EGR Vehicles.
    If the Exhaust Valve Diameter was greater than Inlet Diameter then Lot of Unburnt Fuel would have been Wasted .

    Second .. EGR is BAD Air sent back for even further Burning. The Way BMW does is Just To Use Little Amount of it To Meet Emission Norms , Fiat Uses Too Much Air . I think The Diameter of Fiat EGR Pipe is little Bigger than that of my 2500cc BMW ....Only that Fiat Engine is Half the Size ....
    Plus EGR On/Off Operation is ECU Controlled No matter what Pipe Diameter, BMW Does it Better than Fiat as far as Long Term Sludge Builtup is concerned.
    EGR Air should not result in Much Regular Cleaning , Results is Sudden Loss of Power due to Choking in short term & Long Term Heavy Sludge Built Up As Seen in the Last Fiat Picture.

    . I think its better Off to Disconnect EGR Coupler in FIAT cause its Just Too Much Bad Stuff Going Back .BMW Sludge Build is Very Very Less as i myself have cleaned in my 1,25,000km car.I was shocked to see the FIAT Longterm Build up.Engine is being Dirtied in the name "Emission Norms" .There are other ways to Save Environment . Stop Missile Testing , Stop Wars,Stop Tyre Burning , Stop Garbage Burning & Use Japanese Tech Internal Garbage Burning Power Generating Plants That Burn Garbage to Extract Power . ......Instead Sludging Everyone's Car Engine with this "EGR".
    Regular Cleaning of EGR is JUST NOT PRACTICAL , Cause Some users have Experinced this Issue 1 Week After Installing A New EGR Assembly.
    High Quality Engine Oils Last 40,000Km .
    Mobil 1 Video Shows BMW Driven 1 Million MILE Plus with Engine Specs As Good As New .

    Mobil Million Mile BMW 325i - YouTube

    Cleaning EGR Assembly Every Week / Month Due to BAD Engineering is OUT of Question . I have 2 BMW 5 Series ,
    I would rather Walk in a Hawai Chappal Or Ride an Old Carburettor Maruti 800 than clean every month/3month or even every year.

    BTW HAPPY NEW YEAR & Dont Forget to WAtch THE Video
  4. jumu

    jumu Superiore

    I think you should change the fuel source. It looks like incomplete combustion or highly adulterated fuel unable to be burnt well. Take a sample of the fuel and give it to the OMC head office for adulteration check. The local office could be colluding and will give you a wrong report.

  5. @jumu

    Why Does my BMW run perfectly from the same Fuel Source ?

    Why is there is sooo much Less Sludge build up in the Intake Manifold of my BM & So High in FIAT from the Same Fuel Source ????

    Are All the users who are Facing this Problem Professional Liars ?

    Do u Expect that we Import Diesel from Poland or Italy so that we can drive our "MANUFACTURING DEFECTIVE" cars normally ?

    If FIAT Created such a Sensitive Car ( More than Merc or BM) then they should be driving it in their factory test track /Heaven rather than selling to some1 else.

    If u are happy with your car then stop posting messages.... This Thread is for people who are facing problems.
    I am not posting messages in Tech Forums that My Mobile / Laptop is running Fine.

    IMPORTANT : The Sludge Buildup up is Soooo High in Fiat (See Last Fiat Picture above) in INTAKE MANIFOLD & PIPES .....Its Almost As POLLUTED or EVEN WORSE than Most Car Silencers. INTAKE MANIFOLD is supposed to be Clean & Not Worse than a SILENCER.

    My Diesel BM Car Silencer Pipes & Muffler are Still Original & in Excellent Condition even after 1,25,000 kms +

    Regards & Jazāk Allāh Khayr ******************* “It takes a Rough Sea to make a Great Captain.” *******************************
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
    1 person likes this.

  6. @ bhai Why this Problem is not in Maruti DDiS ??? MAybe the Cone Shaped Filter is absent / Different in MARUTI OR More Importantly

    Maybe the EGR Solenoid Valve Dont Open too Frequently Due to Different ECU Tuning by Japanese Suzuki Engineers of the same FIAT Engine.
    ECU Solenoid On/Off is controlled by ECU Program .

    The Less EGR Valve opens the Less Burnt Sludgy Sooty EGR Air Dirties the Intake Manifold .

    IMPORTANT : The Sludge Buildup up is Soooo High in Fiat (See Last Fiat Picture above) in INTAKE MANIFOLD & PIPES ..... Its Almost As POLLUTED or EVEN WORSE than Most Car Silencers. INTAKE MANIFOLD is supposed to be Clean & Not Filthy Oily & Worse than a SILENCER.My Diesel BM Car Silencer Pipes & Muffler are Still Original & in Excellent Condition even after 1,25,000 kms +

    Whats the Point having Expensive DPF DIESEL FILTER / Air Filter / OIL Filter When at the end EGR Dirties the Engine it due Oversize EGR PIpe & or Wrong Timing /Long Opening of EGR Valve due to Bad ECU Program of FIAT?

    ********* “It takes a Rough Sea to make a Great Captain.” *****Happy New Year *******
  7. jumu

    jumu Superiore

    Agree that quantity need not always mean great quality, but it does mean a reasonable acceptance of the product. I have done 85k kms and with 80:20 city driving,when I got the EGR cleaned there was hardly any noticeable soot deposit. Does that mean the EGR design in my mjd is better than that in yours ? The flush out exhaust gas pressures of a BMW that you compare will be much much higher than the mjd and one cant expect anything to remain in the exhaust channel at those pressures.

    Quite a few who had complained of uneasy engine responses at cruise have reported cure of the symptoms just by changing fuel station or using diesel additive for a period. If the fuel burn is good then soot is also less. If the fuel burn is not good, then deposits will originate and they are heavy and cant pass through the exhaust channels and will obviously deposit at some point of convenience. I am just giving you an alternative thought than just being consumed by the design angle./

  8. AS Salam Aleykum Abdul ......
    1) Your Punto may belong to different EGR Design + ECU Tuning .....Usually RECALLS of Company are from XX XXXX Month Year to XX XXXX Month YEAR.
    2) If you Deposits even at 85K Kms are not as the Last Picture I posted which is From a User of 88K Kms of the EGR Cleaning Thread .......Then Your Car has different EGR Design + ECU Tuning
    3) As i said & You are Right about Gas Pressures of BMW ...... both are coming to the same conclusion .......That The Last Picture that I Posted of Sludge in Intake Manifold is More Dirty than Someone would Find in An Exhaust.

    Also plz see my reply to @bhai Why Maruti DDis does not have this problem. Regards
  9. PaddleShifter

    PaddleShifter Staff Member Janitor

    Grande Punto 1.3
    @leading777, your posts are going into moderator approval queue rather than uploading directly. Seem to be some glitch. Kindly send a PM to one of the mods if this continues.
  10. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Linea 1.3
    Leading777, point well made that a car should not need extensive and too often cleaning of greasy bi-products to keep it in good running state. But of course, I wouldn't mind getting it done at regular intervals if only it is hassle free or user friendly, and pocket friendly too, and can boost the life and efficiency of the engine.

    On a similar note, being from the print industry and ever since your first post about EGR designs of Fiat cars and the fact that you are comparing with BMWs, keeps ringing in my head like you are comparing a Heidelberg Druckmachinen (German) with a Komori Corp. (Japan) :D. In sheetfed printing machines Heidelbergs are like a gold standard. Talking about design and reliability, a 1960s german machine of the aforementioned brand for example is working at a friends press with the same zeal day in and out of course with certain limitations of technology of that time, but superb designed and well built nonetheless.
    But it also reminds me about the premiums that one needs to pay for German cars and machines in general. Now please don't get me wrong, but could Fiat afford to share the same philosophy as the Bavarian manufacturer. Better still, can BMW afford selling a Linea-like at even half the price of a 3 series to the masses.

    No offense, but let's just focus here on the beauties we have in hand. Let's give the Italians some due credit for selling us this package of next generation eco-based technology at this cost. And I do appreciate the fact that you have compared the car to a technology leader brand, but I would also like to see BMW rolling out a Linea-like sedan at as low as 15L, with cheaper spare consumables and give all other segment leaders a run for their money.

    Now it definitely does not mean that Fiat has the liberty to ill-design and take customers for granted and they should definitely copy BMW :evilsmile brushing aside all the patents :p.

    There are many arguments that can be made around the evolving BS1234 & Euro1234 norms and how technology and reliability should not be hampered etc.; but in Fiat's defense and at full risk of sounding like a Fiat fanboy, I can only say that they have made a remarkable and successful award-wining engine, the MJD, that is being sold in millions to manufacturers who are free to tune to it to their taste and liking.

    So again, if you can venture out to help design a permanent workaround to this problem while keeping the EGR in loop you will do some major good for Fiat, all TFIan brethren and mankind in general..:p

    I will personally take you to Ranjangaon in Linea from Mumbai airport, no kidding.

    I rest my case..:wink:
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page