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Sudden loss of power while overtaking

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by Rituraj, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. Root Cause of the Problem

    I have a Linea & was Fed up with this Issue .My car first experienced this issue When it


    was only 700kms ( Seven Zero Zero ) from Brand New ...Now its 4600kms till date


    ... Symptoms
    1) Extreme Powere Loss when driven 15+ km in single day ...As if a 50cc engine is under the


    hood.
    2) Sometimes problem dissapears when switched on/off sometimes Not.
    3) I changed the Fuel Pump Relay 3 weeks back & Nothing happens...same problem ...If u take


    out 2 Fuel Pump relays Engine will shut & there
    will be check engine light on .
    4) This Power Loss occurs when NO Check Engine Light is ON & No Errors when Scanned.


    I also Own a BMW & have Tech knowledge of how vehicles operate.


    My Car Now Operates Fine & I have Found the Root Cause of Problem


    Problem is
    1) Neither Electronic ( ECU )
    2) Neither Electrical (Fuel pump relay, EGR Solenoid Switch )
    3) Neither Mechanical ( Engine )


    The Root Cause of this Problem is


    1) DESIGN (Angle ) of the EGR Intake & Not the EGR Solenoid Valve Itself .
    2) The Cone shaped Metal with holes Fresh Air Pipe Filter itself (See Photo Link )


    Exhaust Gas is basically Waste Product Recirculated Back .....


    The Problem with FIAT Design is It Blows back this Burnt Exhaust Air Directly On the Mouth


    ( Filtered Turbo Intercooled) of Fresh Intake Cone Filter Intake PIPE .( See Photo Link


    below )


    This is WHAT Chokes the Whole Air Input & causes Extreme Power Loss .


    New Cone Filter -> http://www.teamfiat.co.in/attachments/engine-


    compartment/41616d1361456820-sudden-loss-power-while-overtaking-photo-8-new-inlet-


    manifold-view1.jpg
    After Driving -> http://www.teamfiat.co.in/attachments/engine-compartment/41615d1361456811


    -sudden-loss-power-while-overtaking-photo-3-inlet-manifold-view1.jpg


    My BMW Never has this Problem:-
    1) The EGR Air is NOt Faced Opposite the Intake Air Mouth Filter ( cause there isnt any)...


    It Just Merges with The Fresh Air Directly in a Different Angle . Its Not like the Opposite


    Facing Angle like in Fiat.
    2) There is NO Fresh Cone or Non Cone Filter of the Pipe.


    I solved this Issue by Simply Disconnecting the EGR Solenoid Switch Coupler , So No Exhaust


    Polluted Sludgy Sooty Air Going Back to the Engine . The Check Engine Light Will Come on


    but u have to ignore it .


    So the Root Cause of the Problem is :-
    1) Angle In Which EGR Air Enters the Intake Manifold
    2) Useless Cone Pipe FILTER That just gets CHOKED due to the Opposite Facing EGR Polluted


    Black Sludgy Sooty Air.


    This is A Serious Problem that can Cause Accident in Highway or City Driving. This is a Bad


    Design & Engineering of Fiat's Engine Engineers.
    Fiat Should issue a Recall .


    This problem can be Solved :-


    1) Disconnecting the EGR Solenoid Switch Coupler
    2) Cutting out the Cone Metal Filter of Intake Pipe
    3) Redesigning the Angle of the EGR Air


    The Reason why ECU fails to diagnose this problem is :-


    The Problem occurs after Air has gone through the Air Mass Sensor ( No Mass Air Flow Sensor


    Error generated), All Injectors ( No Blockage Detected) , All Sensors work fine.


    The Reason Why So many users have Faced this problem again & again even after Multiple NEW


    EGR Valve Changes ....Because of the nature of EGR Air ( Its Polluted Sludgy & Sooty) which


    Air Flow Angle of The EGR Air Dirties ,Chokes the Cone Shaped Metal Filter , which CHOKES


    the Air Input & causes Massive Power Loss.


    New Cone Filter -> http://www.teamfiat.co.in/attachments/engine-


    compartment/41616d1361456820-sudden-loss-power-while-overtaking-photo-8-new-inlet-


    manifold-view1.jpg
    After Driving -> http://www.teamfiat.co.in/attachments/engine-compartment/41615d1361456811


    -sudden-loss-power-while-overtaking-photo-3-inlet-manifold-view1.jpg


    At one point i thought of buying 3 series , i already have a 5 series
    I'll Post Design of Fiat & BMW EGR Air intake with Diagrams & photos of Fuel Pump Relay


    Location ( WHICH is NOT the SOLUTION to this PROBLEM ).


    "Millions said the apple fell but Newton was the one to ask why."


    "And when it is said unto them (the Disbelievers) : Make not MISCHIEF in the earth, they


    say: We are Peacemakers only.
    Are not they indeed the MISCHIEF makers? But they perceive not. "
    - Quran Chapter 2 Verse 11,12
    4 people like this.
  2. aashish_19

    aashish_19 Amatore

    Messages:
    198
    Noida
    Grande Punto 1.2
    @leading777

    May be or may not be you are right :confused1 but this is definitely worth to know what you have mention :up. Lets more people dive into this and we can come up with the long time ongoing issue with our fellow members :anyone
  3. Root cause - correct photo link

    PHOTOS of the CONE Shaped METAL Intake Manifold Pipe Filter can be viewed in PAGE 6 of this THREAD

    http://www.teamfiat.co.in/engine-compartment/8952-sudden-loss-power-while-overtaking-6.html
  4. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    The images are not loading..:confused:

    Please repost with inline image uploads. This thread is bound to get some serious interest.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  5. Root Cause of the problem Photo

    Please See Page 6 of this Thread for the Photo of the Metal Cone Filter

    http://www.teamfiat.co.in/engine-compartment/8952-sudden-loss-power-while-overtaking-6.html

    PHOTO 8 NEW INLET MANIFOLD VIEW1.jpg

    PHOTO 3 INLET MANIFOLD VIEW1.jpg
  6. Very interesting.
  7. bhai

    bhai Esperto

    Messages:
    1,185
    Ahmednagar
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    @leading777
    Please upload the images. Thanks for sharing important points.
    You have done deep study. I was also thinking possibility of some design error.

    Little bit off topic. This type of stupid problem is not in Maruti DDiS.
    Is there any differance in EGR of DDiS?
    OR Does Maruti has tuned engine after taking note of this design error?
    I mean does the tunning of DDiS overrides this design error?
  8. jumu

    jumu Superiore

    Messages:
    969
    Chennai
    leading 777, not sure how much you are right or wrong, but as on March 22 2013 Fiat Poland produced the 5 millionth multijet engine. Also very few on this forum have reported such an issue or even those who reported remotely similar issue have got it resolved by conventional means. Main issue will be with diagnosis. You should contact FIAT india Mr. Mangesh and get it sorted.

    Abdul
  9. Surya

    Surya Superiore

    Messages:
    930
    Namma Bengaluru
    I don't think the design is different from the European counterpart or make shift for Indian market which has flaws in it, if its a flaw proven FIAT has to take the call..
  10. Rituraj

    Rituraj Regolare

    Messages:
    381
    Jorhat, Assam
    I have already escalated the issue once more to Fiat India with a link to this thread. I was the one who had started this thread and it's been almost one full year but no solution seems to be in sight. Beyond this escalation to Fiat India, I wonder what else I can do.

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