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Story of a 12 L Rupee “LEMON” – The New Fiat Linea MJD Emotion – Sep 2015

Discussion in 'Linea 1.3 MJD' started by vinayk, Dec 18, 2015.

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  1. vinayk

    vinayk Amatore

    Messages:
    63
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    @ghodlur I don't mind guys, carry on, its always great get perspectives :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 22, 2015 ---
    I am no expert like most of you on this forum.

    However don't you guys think - when you keep driving for more than 10K with this pulling setup. The tyre and the arms, bushing will acquire some sort of distorted geometry to compensate for that left pulling effect? Finally one starts feeling that the pulling has reduced on its own? This certainly is no engineering solution but more of a jugaad!

    Also as I mentioned earlier, my car standing on a flat surface has different gaps in LH & RH wheel wells. If that rings any bells - I Need to double check again which side is lesser but I believe if left is more than the gap on the right then FIAT SC is playing mischief if vice versa then there is something very very wrong.

    We are so much fascinated with the so called Italian image, build of FIAT, we tend to take all this with pich of salt, rather than confronting the car maker and push them to deliver defect free products and great service!

    May god give us the courage to do so, I remain.

    That's all I had to say.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  2. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    2,998
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    It has been discussed to death on this forum about quality issues just the way such niggles crop up or some idiosyncratic behavior of certain models of cars from Fiat stable since many years and Fiat isn't alone. You have definitely not gone through countless such bashing posts based on your limited view about the forum.

    Many cars have peculiar issues. Some with just bad reputation and others with bad reputation and solutions as well. For example in Fiat itself Sienas before year 2002 had power steering seal failures which eventually lead to rack failure. But same was rectified by Fiat about year 2002 and after.

    Italian beauty or heritage etc. moreover is the over zealous way of describing the penchant of Italians for beautiful design and aesthetics and other analogies related to beauty including feminine beauty. But built quality fortunately overall is a huge plus and always has been a no compromise from Fiat and deserves loads of praise always when you compare with competition products at the given price. And the way the car has handling capabilities people have noted immediate difference in much more popular brands and it becomes a point of no compromise for many making these the "driving enthusiasts car" in those ways.

    Regarding the issue of uneven gap kindly take a ruler and help with someone and post the pics to Fiat (Mr. Mangesh K). And also to email id of Fiat official responsible for the respective FASC.

    Besides that please suggest step wise in least words possible amount of things changed or tampered with by FASC. A technical name list will help. Take help again from FASC.
    vinayk likes this.
  3. vinayk

    vinayk Amatore

    Messages:
    63
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    I have already notified Fiat India on this issue of uneven gaps at both the front wheel wells to tire top with same psi on known flat surface. I will take exact measurements and send them the pictures of the same.

    My job card was opened with FASS on 16th Oct and closed on 2nd Dec 2015 ( Precisely 45 days) with 80% of the pulling issue addressed, I was advised by Fiat to collect the car and I did under protest in writing.

    Complete email communication with Fiat was shared in my earlier post, where in date wise I have documented all the works carried out.

    In shot if I put it, Its goes this way.

    First all wheel alignment was done, No Go, Then the cross member was loosed to drop the suspension and fiat recommended procedure was done using two long pipes and bolts tightened, back to alignment machine, still no go, then all four wheels were balanced and rotated, we went for close to 6 trials as the above procedure was done for close to 6 times and then FASS reported this to Fiat technical team & Then the FASS SM raised a DIR with Fiat.

    Per their advise, Then both the front struts were completely dismantled to check the strut top cap for free moment, greased and put back as no issue found, during which the lower arms also were inspected and found to be ok. everything was put back and again back to cross member alignment and then wheel alignment, then trial, no go.

    Then came the turn of the steering rack, which was replaced as the steering used to tilt to left almost immediately as the hands taken off, then again cross member alignment and again wheel alignment, we went for trial, This addressed the tilt of the steering going left but the left pulling still persisted to same degree.

    During the above process all the fasteners and alloy wheels were removed and put back more than a dozen times in front of me, Not sure how many more times, when I was not around, There is visible wear and alloys chipped off paint and deep scratches on alloys.

    I know for matter of fact that KHT FASS tried everything as per recommended by FIAT & Sure they have skilled mechanics, At least people who worked on my car were. To mention SM Mr. Sharanappa was very helpful and understanding my situation. In fact every one have been including Fiat & Mr. Mangesh & Mr. Ramesh Gandi as well and I reciprocated with extended cooperation. then I requested him to depute some one from the plant as the issue seems to be with the steering geometry itself.

    Then they swapped the wheels and tyres from another brand new linea that had come for PDI, again alignment , still no go. then again they swapped the wheels from an Aventura, again alignment, still no go.

    I literally lost count how many times things were being dismantled refitted, crossmember alignment then wheel alignment and then trials.

    During all my trials with FASS and Fiat team, I have demonstrated the pulling and none have rejected my claim.

    Meanwhile Mr. Mangesh advised FASS to get a set of Bridgestones ready, which was put on & finally after a gap of 15 days of follow up, Mr. Mangesh deputed Mr. Gaurav Paradesi, From Fiat field service team was sent, They again worked on the entire procedure over 2 days, when a lot of hit and trial on the road repairs were performed for hours in my absense and then we took a trial on the 3rd day, Now the left pulling issue was resolved to about 50% but still not to my satisfaction.

    Point to be noted here: Tyres were replaced and then hit and trial on the road repairs were performed for hours in my absence & finally concluded that continental MC5 tyres were at fault, I have provided sufficient number of reference of real Linea / Punto owners who have been using these without any issues.

    Then I got the tyre company RSM into picture, who inspected the tyres and certified them to be defect free.

    Finally Mr Abhijeet Joshi (Technical head) & Mr. Donald Pinto (Quality Head) were sent in for 2 days to inspect the car, By then I had left the car and did not want to take any more trials of the same. possibly again all procedures were followed and on Sun 30th Nov all of them came to my place for a joint trial, this time with totally different set of alloys and another set of goodyears, Even during this trial I demonstrated the 20% left pull on NH and Mr Abhijeet Joshi was in a denial mode and started driving my car rashly taking calls on cellphone while driving, as he was getting late for the return flight taking to travel agent for reschedule. then he was interrupted by Mr Donald Pinto to slow down and he got to the drivers seat and driving the car, during entire last 5 km he has been steering the car to right continuously. I politely hinted to him that this what he was doing is natural instinct, when someone would do on a left pulling car, he smiled. Possibly they all have been trained to not accept this defect and blame it to tyres as they have been doing in the past on the puny JK's and Apollos. But that was not the care with my car.

    Finally on 30th Nov, I was advised by Mr. Mangesh that they have done joint trial and along with Fiat team& requested me to collect the car and I did under protest in writing. on 2nd Dec 2015 they sent the car to me with the job card for signatures and requesting satisfaction note with 80% of the pulling issue addressed, which I was not in a position to provide.

    Then I sent a final request for settlement else I may have to go legal and take it to press and media attention. Post which I game them 20 days to act, Unfortunately no response.

    So here I am doing all this now :)
    ssateesh likes this.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,443
    delhi ncr
    @vinayk

    They have been FAR more diligent than most other firms would have been, from what you describe.

    They are fully honouring their 'warranty' as a matter of 'honour' not out of fear of bad press or bitter bloated abuse etc on social media, but out of a certain honesty. I would request you to peruse the ownership reports not just here on TFi but esp on team-bhp of NEW Honda Cities (it sells 8-11 times as much as the Linea), new VW-s, even new Fords, as well as their long very active thread on Hyundai's warranty and after-sales practices and behaviour. You will find that those other brands have systematically less honour and less diligence when it comes to such issues, which are MORE common on say the new Honda City, not less.

    Please sell the car immediately. Please sue Fiat India and the dealer too. Please buy a Honda City or a Hyundai, instead, maybe a Maruti. Please then, with lots of luck, expect the same perfectionism from them too, and hopefully 'enjoy reconciling to' their missing warranty-policy+responsiveness honourable conduct, not to mention their extortionate pricing of spares and (high frequency) labour+service charges.

    But if your luck is a bit off with them, as it has been for so many documented owners on teambhp.com.....well good luck trying to deploy the 'emotional atyaachaar' argument against these gigantic firms that sell more and more irrespective of what say you or me as owners may have to experience at their hands and those of their dealers, and may diligently and abusively post on facebook etc.

    Your posting matters here when you want your money back with interest etc is of no use, or even informational benefit to either you or anyone else. FIAT is a small brand in the market. The sorts of things you're expecting as if by, albeit totally inexistent right, only even begins to work (in the imagination) with a small firm, best of luck even trying so energetically to with Maruti, Hyundai, Honda, and of course VW, Skoda etc.

    If I were you I'd be less legalistic and litigious or threatening and would see/guage the bona fide-s of both Fiat and their dealer.

    If
    the good-enough faith and honour has been proven, and you yourself say it has, though only you can judge it for sure, can i suggest you 'get into' your car ownership, off to a distasteful start sure but you must remember there are thousands of new-car owners just like you from OTHER, dominant brands who have not-a-tiny-fraction of the attention and care you are recieving 'over 45 days' and even here on TFi. You will notice there is no bona-fide TFi-type large and active forum for any other firm or brand? Why do you think?

    all the best, sir, this is just a 'pothole' on the road/'flyover', NOT 'a wall'! Raastaa abhi baaki hai! You know? ;-)
    ssateesh, Sujit508 and asimpleson like this.
  5. vinayk

    vinayk Amatore

    Messages:
    63
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    Posting my experience on TFI was indeed as good as banging my head against a wall. Few of the members warned me of this Personally as well. My mistake to continue to expect support.

    All repairs were done at my cost(investment of 12 L) and expense( mental strain, expenses incurred for having the car for 45 days) and that's no favor done by fiat.

    Boss I did not buy vegetables for 10 bucks that I can ignore, its 12 lacs.. Taken loan and paying huge emi towards the car.

    I have got a FIAT for a reason I liked about the car but for this problem. Just like the rest of you all.

    I have owned most of the brand cars and not looking for any suggestions as to what to sell and what to buy... Now don't call me arrogant for this. But just not appreciate it.

    Small company big company I don't care, I paid money for it and did not get it as chrustmas gift from fiat...I bought a car its basic expectation for it to go straight just as the other cars.

    Let's close this post with no further discussion, suggestions or advises.

    Thanks a ton experts :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2015 ---
    I have stopped watching this thread and unsubscribed to the alerts and notifications, You all can carry on with ANY discussion you wish to have here:)

    Good Luck :)
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,443
    delhi ncr
    @vinayk

    All the best, going wherever you're going with this.

    However, am unsure whether you yourself quite know (in the real, warranty-based, and bona- or mala-fide-based carworld not the imaginary 'it is my right to a refund and i will have it'-based one.)

    I've given you reasons. Please think about them. Emoting away, especially on a mere car enthusiast forum, will achieve little: you were expecting too much of us. A 'Dandi March' against a car company, perhaps?

    cheers, no hard feelings.
    harryaviator and asimpleson like this.
  7. Vishi

    Vishi Amatore

    Messages:
    139
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    asimpleson, PradeepM and vinayk like this.
  8. vinayk

    vinayk Amatore

    Messages:
    63
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
  9. PradeepM

    PradeepM Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    693
    Hyderabad
    Linea 1.3
    Folks,

    From what I see FIAT has put in their effort however the issue is not 100% solved to the customer satisfaction and we are not sure what 80% is in this case. We also don't know what is the agreement on % calculation and even if we know the applied formula in this case we can't determine since none of us personally drove the car, so its better to move on.

    As a customer Vinay has all the right to go and fight the case legally, and I don't see any reason why should he be discouraged.

    Vinay, kindly keep us posted on the next steps you intend to take and I would request you to keep posting interim updates when you have time.

    In case you sell the car as well (as there is a post already on a popular website to sell used cars) kindly inform the mods so that the thread can be locked.

    For the rest of my fellow forum members, I think it's better to stand down now as the trend of this thread is more to inform about the decision and not to ask for advice.

    Your advice is needed on many other threads, kindly step in to share information where needed.

    Cheers,
    Pradeep.
    mangeshtendulkar and drknaresh like this.
  10. vinayk

    vinayk Amatore

    Messages:
    63
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    Thanks @PradeepM for the understanding. Really appreciate your thoughts.

    @nkrishnap - Request you to kindly lock this thread down to avoid any further comments.
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