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SCOOP!! - The JEEP's have cometh !!

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. Turbothinghy

    Turbothinghy Superiore

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    Pune
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    @Krunal Bhatt: In fact, now at least people know that there is some brand called 'Jeep' that has launched 3 ultra-expensive SUVs. This kind of brand identity should ideally help the Jeep C-SUV when it gets launched next year. People would then say, that the same company builds SUVs that are worth more than 100 million :D

    Lets just hope, that FCA keep their promise to introduce the C-SUV next year at an affordable price for the masses :watching:
    prabhjot and Krunal Bhatt like this.
  2. Krunal Bhatt

    Krunal Bhatt Amatore

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    Ahmedabad
    Ahmedabad
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @Turbothinghy
    I really want them to bring C-SUV under FIAT as well as JEEP badge, like Renault and Nissan "Duster".
    prabhjot likes this.
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    delhi ncr
    @Turbothinghy

    The Jeep is no more an off-roading exclusive vehicle than a Linea t-jet is for (so-called) "driving pleasure enthusiasts".

    Jeeps are CAPABLE because they are systematically engineered 'tough': the redundancies in esp suspension components, plus chassis engineering that's designed for a great compromise between the 'softroad' and the 'offroad'. And higher-quality 4x4 systems, of course.

    This is true also of the Renegade, let alone the Grand Cherokee or the upcoming 7-seat Grand Wagoneer (the rebirth of the original luxury 4x4 suv, long before there was a range Rover of any sort.)

    i.e., they are ideal for India, just like Fiats (in a slightly different way): and NOT because of off-roading, but because in theory as well as practice (as i can well attest the minute i step outside my home in gurgaon) our roads ARE 'off' and/or can suddenly become so (eg., during the rains this monsoon in Gurgaon: potholes and waterlogging+huge slush.) No dainty, 'precious' and impossibly expensive to own German pseudo-suv cuts it, sorry! (I'd personally bet on a volvo xc60 or xc 90 or forthcoming xc40 though.)

    THAT the brand is so evocative of BOTH an old desi as well as such a storied american but also global (europe, latam, china, japan, se asia) history and heritage, AND is emphatically the very fastest growing automotive large-brand in the world over the last 3-5 years (under Mike Manley and Marchionne/Fiat) IS the 1650 crores 'bet' they've taken on india, despite and also because of Fiat's past and present struggles-to-succeed in popularity in India.

    Given the export-centrality of the India-made 2017 and 2018(?) Jeeps, and given the sharing with Tata Motors involved, as well as, clearly, the (for once) LARGE marketing budgets being allocated since Kevin Flynn's taken-charge, mefeels it is a very good bet, with better-than-even-odds.

    Whether, come say 2018 or 2019, that spills-over into benefits for 'Fiat' in India (all-new models, sharing a lot with the local Jeeps) is THE question. We'll simply have to wait to see. But the combined dealerships arguably could leave FIAT branded models with, for once, some good traction on the binding constraint for the brand (perceptions of sales and aftersales quality and assurance.)

    Launching all-new Fiats without at-least a potential legup from Jeep for the dealerships-issue would've been a fool's errand. Hence mefeels no all-new Fiats should be launched until BOTH localized the c-suv and the smaller b-suv have been for Jeep and the dealers?
    cassini and Turbothinghy like this.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    2,444
    delhi ncr
    This render is VERY like the new c-suv/new Compass (as commented by an FCA usa+italy 'insider' on a usa fca forum), that we in India will be getting, made locally for the most part. Very Grand Cherokee-butch front, but with a more curvaceous and raked rear end+wraparound l.e.d taillamps.

    http://www.alvolante.it/news/jeep-compass-2017-rendering-348179/foto#jeep-compass-2017-rendering_0

    Who knows exactly, but mefeels a 19-20 lakhs starting 4x2 price point, fully gizmo-laden, is ON, surely, possibly even-lower for the 1.4 t-jet (hopefully now: with the multiair infinitely-variable vvt system, and with the ddct) and/or the 1.5/1.6 mjd with either the ddct or the 9-speed zf transmission, IF the latter's been somewhat localized as well? This transmission's (FCA's version is made-by-fca, and has been changed a bit), not coincidentally, the very one used by Land/Range Rover on many models: Tata Motors will likely use it too for their Ranjangaon-made Safari-replacement suv-s come 2018, with the 2litre mjd.)
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 3, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 3, 2016 ---
    What nobody comments on, even though it is the elephant-in-the-room is this: some firms in India (Suzuki but especially Toyota-via-Thailand and VERY especially Hyundai-from-korea) enjoy humunguous levels of SUBSIDIES from the government of India, thanks to free-trade agreements, while some others enjoy many thousands of crores of subsidies in free-land and tax-maafi (Ford and Suzuki in Gujarat, renault-Nissan in Tamilnadu.)

    Not only is this directly at-the-expense of the citizens of India and of some-states (esp Gujarat, but also tamilnadu) it also makes the old-automotive-investment state of Maharashtra less competitive, by imposing costs in 'freebies' i.e., "muft-khori" for a selected few autofirms and brands, thereby adding a large financial=pricing=margins burden on the maharashtra ones (Tata, Fiat, Mahindra being the oldest, then GM, VW group too) in the marketplace.

    Some firms then have to pay tens of lakhs in cbu etc taxes while others like Toyota and esp Hyundai (for the elantra, santa fe, upcoming Tucson and all diesel engines) but also now Ford (for the Endeavour from tariff-reduced Thailand) get to waltz in the marketplace on the basis of so-called price-vfm competitiveness alone. Some firms have to localize their class-best diesels (i.e., Fiat, now soon with the 2litre mjd too) while others can blithely import them at little cost, a privelege nobody else enjoys (Hyundai.)

    The abuse of the automotive manufacturing business system in india by esp hyundai (and suzuki) is a major reason all other firms are bleeding in india. And why India shall (other than the jeep c-suv) NOT get any international-grade models from any firm other than these two (if at all, since these firms cut-costs often hiddenly) on their Indian avatars of their models), other than (again, like the Jeep c-suv) if the model can be export-centric.

    imo These 2 dominant, oligopolistic firms (with profit margins in the range of Ferrari at 14-16%, net) must have their tax, land, and/or customs-duty priveleges rolled-back, else (unlike FCA with Jeep and/or new Fiats) we will only get third-world crap disguised as luxury for the aspirational+wannabe, and more firms will dial-back from India like GM and Toyota have already done, and Ford will have to, given their scarring by the Figo+Aspire experience (despite so many land and tax subsidies by the Gujarat government.) Bechara GM is not being permitted to close down its Halol gujrat plant, either. How is the firm expected to compete, being THIS financially hobbled, whatever its errors of product-speccing etc, in the past?

    The new emissions and crash test norms due (IF they get implemented on time, which i doubt totally) in the 2019-2020+ time frame is only going to add further to the inability of any other firm (except MS, HY, Mahindra and maybe Tata+Fiat/fca) to even-cope on a hoped-for Return-on-investment basis over the next 5 years, especially since only the first 3 and Fiat (engines, component exports etc) do NOT have epic accumulated losses already.
  5. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    2,444
    delhi ncr
    http://auto.economictimes.indiatime...pens-its-first-showroom-in-ahmedabad/54197034

    "Der aye par durust.....!" ?

    "ciao baby"(as the usa+europe Renegade's fuel cap says) Or "Yeah, man, Yeah!" or "That's bad, man!" or "Go ManGo!"(the name of a Dodge Challenger yellow-orange carpaint colour...)

    ;-)
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2016 ---
    http://www.business-standard.com/ar...turing-option-kevin-flynn-116090900024_1.html

    Still, very understandably cagey about Fiat's future product plans, but interesting stuff nevertheless about the dealers (Jeep Only? Combined? Where and who, in each case?) etc.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    2,444
    delhi ncr
    http://www.autonews.com/article/201....s.-carmakers--get-the-hang--of-globalization

    The article suggests that firms (the usa-centered and some european ones) that have been outdone over the last 2 decades of global economic growth and expansion in 'emrging markets' by East Asian firms more adept (given their own histories) at 'globalization' (China being a great exception, it IS very different to any other emerging market, also by far the biggest and most diverse auto market in the world)

    are now getting the 'hang' of it. The prime example being FCA's Jeep. Largely because the global shift to 'crossovers' and 'suv'-s at the expense of hatches, sedans and econo-boxes.

    The opprtunity for FCA, then, as for Ford but also Renault-Nissan against the MS, HY, Toyota and Honda daadas in the Indian market would seen entirely to lie with cuv/suv-s. This has already been shown by Mahindra's ability to achieve a good chunk of sales, despite very inferior engineering, quality, reliability and service etc.

    Hence: JEEP! But especially if they feel free to take JEEP right into the c2/d1 price range, and not keep it, like Toyota's Fortuner, at low-volumes-high-margins.

    That is precisely what they will be doing with the local manufacture of the c-suv and the smaller Renegade-like b-suv (special, for emerging markets.)

    However, this also presents IMO an opportunity, the ONLY opportunity for the FIAT brand's continued vitality (such as it is or will be) in India: an 'suv' of its own.

    i.e., NOT the 'new Punto', 'new grand Sienna' but a 'new Avventura' and/or the 500X, which should also, like the Renegade, earn an emerging-markets-special avatar (same/similar look and dimensions, but much less expensive chassis and suspension engineering.)

    Hopefully, the Jeep b-suv being developed (em-special version of renegade, perhaps a tad smaller) will, like the european and usa Renegade, be twinned to such an avatar of the 500X?

    imo it would have to be the 500X in styling and visible touch-feel: anything else would not have any USP for Indian buyers, such as they are. i.e., Jeep b-suv (renagade-like): a youthfully butch/sporty/boxy look at say 12-16 lakhs, and a Euro-stylish 500X version at similar prices.

    This is the very strategy Renault-Nissan is using in emerging markets, including Brazil where Fiat and jeep are so strong: Duster-economical chassis/etc under-the-skin, but European 'stylish' Kaptur on it, and also an edgier, more aggressive-looks Nissan Kicks platform mate of it. R-N will be implementing this in India shortly.

    For FCA, however, the problem is that unlike R-N: such an emerging-markets (esp if only-as-rhd) 500X may not be very exportable, given the FIAT brand's europe+latam+japan-mainly geography. Still, given that it would share so much with the Jeep b-suv (Renegade-like) which would assuredly have enough such growth markets for export out-of India, it would make for an excellent India-only/mainly strategy for the FIAT brand, cost and investment-risk-wise?

    i.e., ONLY one all-new FIAT, an em-only 500X avatar, in India through the next 3-4 years, with the Punto but especially the Linea going UNREPLACED, with possibly versions of the Avventura (say the Urban Cross) carrying on for a long while (another 3-5 years.)

    That is, IF: (as i think is the case) they will keep a reduced-size new combined FCA (Jeep+Fiat/Abarth) delaer body (no more than say 40-60 by the time of the locally-made inexpensive Jeep launches) with many small third-party (non-dealer) workshops/FASS as service centres in smaller towns/cities/micro-markets. On the model of the (non-dealer) FASS at Gurgaon, RS Motors fass in Mumbai, a few recent non-dealer ones in Navi Mumbai, etcetera.

    @asimpleson
    rusticnomad likes this.
  7. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,444
    delhi ncr
    Here is the Jeep c-suv/'new Compass': un-camo-ed!

    Fabulous, imo: a very nice mix of the square-butch-American-ness of the Grand Cherokee, whose styling-grammar it adopts, and enough i.e., not too much sleekness-lean-athleticism.

    http://www.noticiasautomotivas.com.br/jeep-compass-2017-e-revelado-em-flagra-no-brasil/

    Got to show this to my old man: he'll get one (albeit in any case!) Hope they have at least one t-et petrol version as they will in Europe, hope there's a 1.6mjd version too, in order to keep prices below say 20lkhs as an enticement.Me: will get the Jeep/Fiat 4m? 4.2m? b-suv that'll follow this model, later, in 2018, provided it's offered with the t-jet?

    @rusticnomad
  8. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

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    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,444
    delhi ncr
    A size smaller though. Of course MUCH lighter, and probably more 'capable' as a result, not being based-on-a-pickup 'truck' chassis.

    This model from JEEP is the first full-on global model since the merger: in one of the largest, and growing fast, segments in all markets/regions, developed as well as to-be-made on all continents, rather than just one or 2: Brazil first in a month or two, then China at the end of this year, Mexico (for export to the usa+canada as well as europe with which mexico has free trade pacts, largely from parts imported from brazil with which too Mexico has a free trade pact) and then India for rhd exports as well: mid-to-late 2017.

    Everywhere outside of the USA JEEPs are positioned, price wise, pretty close toor even right-at German 'luxury' car-maker level.

    In India, though, one hopes they're humbler and position it well-enough below, price-wise, the big beefy pickup truck-based, 'third world market' models from Toyota and Ford, the Fortuner/Hilux and Endeavour/Everest/Ranger: not too much if at all more than the Hyundai Tucson. Of course i guess the 4x4low and the uber-offroad-capable Trailhawk models could go much higher. As could an uber-luxed 'Summit' variant. A way to do that would be to offer a feature-heavy petrol (t-jet) and/or 1.6 mjd2 4x2 manual variant rather than the 2litre mjd2+9-speed automatic only, localized though the latter powertrain will be?

    Let's see how it/they fare in the Indian market, where i guess they will seek upgraders from the Creta/XUV500 level as well as a fair few Fortuner/Endeavour/Innova buyers AND a few folk who give up on say a Merc or Audi small-pseudo-'suv' due to the attraction/brand-identity of JEEP. A 'tweener' approach that another firm like Hyundai with the Tucson will find impossible to do, since it lacks any suv-"Jeep"-credibility?

    BUT in any case this model's going to be a VERY large hit for FCA on a fully-global basis, adding large sales-volumes, esp in China, Europe and LatAm too, where too the combined and relatively new dealership (mainly Jeep+AlfaRomeo) network has already by now been expanded enough to really add large rather than niche volumes.

    btw, the all-new Wrangler family (2 door, 4door and a 4x4 'lifestyle' pickup) comes in model year 2018 globally, an heavily redone Cherokee in 2018 too, then in 2019 or sooner the all-new Grand Cherokee or perhaps the 7-seat, very luxury Jeep Grand Wagoneer instead. In addition, it seems Asia gets a made-in-India Renegade-like b-suv as well in 2018. Maybe one or even 2 of these models could be ckd-ed for rhd exports in india as well. i.e., it seems they might well have more-than-enough to offer their new or upgraded 'combined' dealers in India to keep them happy and profitable??

    @rusticnomad
    cassini, Murphy_Fiat and rusticnomad like this.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    delhi ncr
    http://www.autossegredos.com.br/2016/09/22/veja-novas-fotos-do-jeep-compass-2017/

    New, Chinese, images of a less exalted and blinged-up avatar of the new Compass. The chrome lining that was running right from under the roof/above the doors, but then wrapping down and around the rear d-pillar and lining the rear windscreen is, here, in a glossy black instead. Transperent rear lamps with the brake light in red set deep inside the housing, while front headlamps' shape is retained in a different sizing for the rear lamps too, with a VERY thick led-light-band around its shapely base.
    revvingengines and cassini like this.

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