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SCOOP!! - The JEEP's have cometh !!

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. avi_loveindia

    avi_loveindia Amatore

    Grande Punto 1.2
    What a Great Car ,,What a Pricing ,, I love this :)
    11 lkh for SRT
    7 lkh for Wranglar
  2. gpunto75

    gpunto75 Amatore

    Grande Punto 1.3
    Well that's it, it's clear where FCA is heading to.
    We now only have one option, i. e, We drive and enjoy our Fiats till they age out. Take every possible care.
    Hope we have spares supply /service for another 5 years or so.
    Till then FCA might have become a major engine vendor.
    And after years, cherish our memories, "Ek company thi woh pagli si, Gaadiyaan bahut achchi banati thi, lekin kisiko bechti nahi thi“.
    bharath, bibin, Murphy_Fiat and 4 others like this.
  3. aramico

    aramico Amatore

    KA 51 / KA 31
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    What grand joke of pricing for such an iconic brand. I think we should call is as Jeep grand Jokerokee.
    avi_loveindia and bharath like this.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    Why are you guys talking like the corrupt business-faily-man/owner and mods, pseudos and charlatans, and the "aaloo-piaz ka daam kya hai" (most) members of teambhp, who neither have the money nor the knowledge of what a pukka off-road capable suv is or what Jeep/Abarth/Alfa/aserati/Dodge/Chrysler/Fiat is or is not 'worth'? Third world spec car buyers, and/or status-wala generic 'luxury gaadi' buyers, who purchase Toyotas and Hyundais, and a few overpriced German models.

    Both the Wrangler Unlimited and the Grand Cherokee have been priced exactly in the ONLY way they could.

    Take the prices of these diesel (the GC is a potent 6 cylinder with much more torque and power than the German so-called i.e., non-suv-s that sell in any numbers in india)

    (and they ARE the original pukka suv-s NOT soft, abuse-unfriendly and unreliable German soft, non-offroaders) in Europe.

    Adjust for (a) 200% import duty (b) vat and other taxes like the cst and road tax etc (c) throw in the dealers' large margins.

    And you get exactly these prices.

    ENTIRELY predictable and correct too.

    I like it! Priced exactly as they should be. Spend, instead, on dealers and on brand comunications, experiential marketing events etc. The GC and the Wrangler are mere image builders after all, being the most 'authentic', original JEEP-ethos vehicles (one fullon off-roading, the other great off roader with a monocoque, refineent and a million gizmos and other 'luxury' trappings)

    And then bang: launch the localized c-suv followed by the smaller Renegade-like b-suv at sub-fortuner/endeavour prices, charging though: a good premium for the full-on Jeep 4x4 system 2 litre mjd 9-speed models. Price the entry level avatars of each low-enough, though.

    Focus entirely on dealers' margins, and your own (combined jeep+fiat dealerships, upgraded). Focus on a small dealer body: no more than say 25-40 dealers (combined ones.)

    REM: even 1 Grand Cherokee is worth margins of 15 to 20 TIMES on a Linea, if not even-more. Rely on the localized model (c-suv plus later the b-suv) for volumes NOT the cbu-s.

    Then bring Alfa Romeo too in most largest cities, price them too (cbu) creamily, as-you-must.

    Oh yeah, do consider also bringing in all-new FIATs at the c2 to d1/d2-segment end, as well, though they may only, if lucky, benefit the dealers, since you cannot and will not be allowed (eg, by the esteemed pseudos on teambhp, the supari soldout automotive 'journalists', the resale market, and assorted happy-fool uncleji-s etc, jap and korean car lovers all) to make any money on them in India.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 31, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 31, 2016 ---
    People in India don't 'get' Jeep (the brand, not the generic common noun.) They will have to be explained it, via marketing. FCA and Mike Manley know this, and have said so. It is correct to price the Wrangler and the Grand Cherokee by taking these large startup marketing and dealership costs into account while arriving at the 'financial equation'. The latter depends NOT on sales nubers but on margins, especially for the new dealers.

    Jeeps are NOT luxury vehicles, with bling and soft touch plastics. They are supremely engineered off-road hyper-capable vehicles that ALSO offer tons of and more: gizmos and features than any so-called 'luxury' German competitor in India, from bigger wider wheels, and wheel-/suspension travel onwards.

    Jeeps are like the Toyota Prado/Land Cruiser etc, halfway to being like Range Rovers, and definitely not any totally-non-suv-s like Audis and BMW-s. Even the Mercedes gle 6-cylinder diesel version (350d) with anywhere near the equipment level of the GC is well north of 72 lakhs, and it does not have to pay cbu-taxes (much less than the 190% these Jeeps have to pay.)

    Jeeps are originals. They are authentic.The rest, barring Range Rovers (not evoque) and some Land Rovers and a few Toyotas (Prado+LC) that also sell at 80lakhs to 1 crore+ in India, are: wannabes. The rest are big, well-badged 'luxury' softroad vehicles, dainty in comparison, with no claim to suv-authenticity in their brand or history (barring the Mercedes G-Wagen.)

    FCA should aim only at those willing and able to know and acknowledge (and show-shaa!) the difference, not at the run-of-the-mill 'luxury' 'suv' generic status-seeking-and-nothing-else buyer.

    For the latter type of buyers: the localized softer, less-Americana-style Jeep c-suv (mid-2017), the Renegade-like new emerging-markets special b-suv (2018?) and/or a ckd (for exports) Cherokee will be the way FCA/Jeep will address the Indian market.

    The Cherokee has not been launched as a cbu because it will presuably (and am told by an FCA 'insider' on a FCA forum in the usa) be ckd-ed here by 2018 or so, mainly for re-export to rhd japan and australia etc, just as it is locally-manufactured in China and sells there at the rate of 9000 sales a month:

    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 31, 2016 ---

    Jeep brand launch presentation by Kevin Flynn yesterday.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 31, 2016 ---

    Jeep new-in-India
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  5. sathishgv

    sathishgv Regolare

    Paradip, odisha
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    @prabhjot, exactly the same thought when people started commenting on the price of the JEEP. May be since the name "FIAT" is associated with FCA, people would have not expected such a price. Also, our mind is filled with the JEEP of M&M only. I was like awestruk when i heard somebody telling that "I can buy 4 Jypsys and 4 Thars for that price in my lifetime". What a comparison, like comparing a platinum metal to iron. Only one thing came to my mind "IGNORANCE IS BLISS" :).

    P.S: I don't claim that I know all about JEEP, but I know that both the JEEPs are different.
    Murphy_Fiat and prabhjot like this.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    This so-called "we indians are champions at discerning paisa vassol" is rubbish. Because by the logic of "for this price i can get this and that and that too" one would never buy anything other than, applying the logic fully, a hero Honda Splendour and a Wagon R, an innova and a Mahindra Bolero! "Indians don't know the means from the ends", is how i'd put it, instead. If they did they'd display less passive herding and groupthink and rumour-as-truth, in opinion-formation (e.g., about Jeep pricing), let alone actual purchase or investment decisions.

    What the 40k hits on the abusive thread full of abusive posts by the owner and the mods shows is:

    (a) the owner is in the pay of the PR agencies of...., my guess is several firms but esp Hyundai, and of course VW+Skoda, and Mahindra (as usual). The review and the posts by him and the other mods are by-design a 'supaari job'. Sigh, that's how the media works, only more so the so-called independent internet one. (I used to be a journalist, years ago and have many still-practising journalist friends, i also know PR agency folks: this is the truth, no rhetorical fancy on my part.)

    Consider this: http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ooks-for-an-image-upgrade-116083001327_1.html

    (b) There is no body it seems, nobody, who gives a damn about or has any understanding of the logic, value and cost of ENGINEERING virtues. A Jeep is engineered to a whole other order of toughness and off-road-ability of chassis and suspension etc, without resorting to a pickup truck chassis (Fortuner, Endeavour): any comparison of the Grand Cherokee with these is puerile at best, and motivated at worst. And what to say of the German naazuk 'suv'-s in not even name? And yet that is what the charlatan mods and owner etc of teambhp have orchestrated as an 'information cascade'.

    (c) You know why? because there are many firms running quite scared of FCA/Jeep India: with the new localized c-suv and b-suv push, and especially since it is to be accopanied by 2 suv-s built alongside the Jeep c-suv, from Tata. Ask yourself who stands threatened by these suvs (from 10/12 lakhs to 20+ lakhs) given the brands involved (Jeep, Tata Safari), given the engineering and esp powertrain technology (1.3/1.6 mjd+2 litre mjd+t-jet+9-speed transmission/ddct) being localized at ultra-competitive costs/prices? And given the 'suv' turn in our market: jugaadoo Mahindra, Hyundai, VW....basically every firm barring Chevy and Maruti Suzuki. But esp Mahindra and Hyundai.

    Consider this:

    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
    revvingengines likes this.
  7. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Linea 1.3
    @prabhjot majority Indians understand the language of WIIFM and we can't motivate these thought processes. They didn't need to 'sell' Jeep. It's already 'sold' as a brand. It's pretty much a no brainier, and while not every tom dick harry can buy it (for now atleast) certainly everyone needs to have an opinion about it..cause that's like a fundamental right :wtf:

    Now how many really care about intricacies of automotive history or engineering or philosophy. But many buyers have their own 'fussy logic' of how much spinach should be worth when comparing to say 'aloo'...:wacky:
    It's as difficult to answer the 'why' behind the logic. There it's best left alone.
    Meanwhile those who want will definitely buy one.

    Clearly selling as a mass market is out of question but people want to compare it with Audi Bimmer Merc SUVs for whatever right or wrong 'value' reasons. And once again most of them including me can't get a grip on where FCA is headed. Me personally interested at the Fiat portfolio part of it mainly. So while most often it's a compelling angst against Fiat for being run by morons in this region for not being able to sell the already good stuff to; 'the morons' :p

    Most people wanted it yesterday, the Jeep. In the manufactured avatar, yes..!!
    In the right price for 'them'. :wtf:

    Anyways the focus of FCA isn't on selling hot cakes 'for now' but yes maybe at a later date with revisions and improvements, more like a brand awareness exercise still. Till the local manufacturing product comes along.
  8. revvingengines

    revvingengines Amatore

    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
  9. Turbothinghy

    Turbothinghy Esperto

    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    We have more engineering colleges than the people appearing/preparing for it. Maybe that is the reason that we Indians dont value solid engineering.

    Even I was taken a back when the Jeep pricing was unveiled. But thanks to @prabhjot for opening my eyes :D. After all I couldnt have bought it even if it was priced lower :p

    Those who know what Jeep is, and have the money, would definitely go for it. Others would just be comparing with X5 and the likes and eventually end up buying them.

    Jeep does have a boastful past and is still the best in its business: Offroading. Also, the definition of a SUV in India is very blurred. Just see the positioning of Creta as The Perfect SUV, and yes its doing great numbers.

    The twitter gesture shared by @revvingengines does talk a lot about Jeep.
    revvingengines and prabhjot like this.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    In the car market, as in our public culture as-a-whole we are 'masala filmi' or khichdi-filmi, if you will. We are, happily or with-'tension', given to completely jumbling up and trading-off and 'equating' things according to no logical fundas. The resale value 5 years hence is knowingly but usually unknowingly traded off against say safety or engineering quality, throw in 'soft' plastics and nvh does not matter, and we have not even come to the tradeoff for our anxiety: after sales acchaa hoga? etc etc.

    Behavioural finance and economics researchers have revelaed the sources of this sort of jumbled-up non-rational' decision-making, cognitive biases, cultural and social-network biases that interact and often resonate+compound, including simply the decision about what to believe (e.g., this model has great pricing and worth every penny while that one is a fail etc). It happens all over the world, and among all social groups.

    But it happens NOWHERE more than, and in systematic ways cutting-across all aspects of our 'modern' public-culture in India. The levels of, therefore, herding backed 'truths' in India are simply incredible. Because they extend from trivial examples of fillum culture and automotive culture all the way up to political culture and serious-policy beliefs, beliefs about history, geography, medicine/health, 'sprituality', education/knowledge and its 'worth', etc etc.

    That it happens in a society famously plural, argumentative and 'democratic' with a 'free' media is the amazing thing, since it is systematic phenomenon.

    Anyway, in the case at hand (a trivial one: car sales, automotive brand 'equity', etc) it is clear how PR agencies, the 'official' news media, so-called 'participatory' and 'open source' fora like teambhp, and the ad agencies and marketing departments of firms collude together to 'produce'/'manufacture' apparent absolute truths that then get further and further entrenched and amplified.

    IMO that in the end explains why 2 firms Maruti S and Hy plus Mahindra in 'desi' jugaad 'suv-s' control the market culture to a degree of 75-80% (and ever-increasingly.) A level of concentration not seen now or ever in history (post ww2, post say 1955) in ANY other country where there has been a minimally 'open' market for private automobility (i.e., not counting the Soviet Union.) Least of all...China! Whom we like to deludedly compare ourselves to in such spheres of life.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 1, 2016 ---


    @nkrishnap @asimpleson @puntophile
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 1, 2016 ---

    There will be 10 Jeep dealerships open by december, most by Diwali, 2 will be co-branded with FIAT (mumbai surely being one). Later, leading upto the localized c-suv launch there'll be many current FIAT ones upgraded and combined with JEEP. Meanwhile there will be a large marketing/branding/'PR' expenditure-campaign. And dealers will be offered large margins and incentives.

    The c-suv will hopefully be priced very well below the Fortuner/Endeavour, esp the 4x2 versions, rumoured by autocar to come with the smaller and cheaper 1.6 mjd (and presumably the t-jet) in the non-full-on-4x4 Trailhawk-type models which will have the localized 2 litre mjd2+9-speed automatic.

    There will be a b-suv, based on the new Punto long-wheelbase and lightened+strengthened platform/architecture, said to be sub-4m. It will be very similar in styling to the Renegade. This is confirmed not just for India but also for Brazil/Latam.

    For these 2 models: exports-first or as-much. Sharing with Tata's 2 new suv-s (Safari replacements) as well. Hopefully, thereby to keep prices low (at least for the 4x2 models.)

    And then, with any luck, but this time with dealerships in much greater, sustainable shape (financially and therefore in terms of sales+service 'quality'), thanks to the Jeeps....the all-new Fiats (new Punto etc) starting in 2018 or maybe 2019, which may not be very exportable but which share so-much under the skin with these highly exportable Jeep models.

    Good, good. I get to buy a Jeep by 2018, hopefully a t-jet+ddct again, to replace either the Linea t-jet or the family-workhorse Punto Active. Have not felt more confident in fca-in-india in years, including (with just a little luck: the new+upgraded combined-dealers)!
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016

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