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SCOOP!! - The JEEP's have cometh !!

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    495
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot So help me understand - no one from Jeep turn's up at the event which means that the Jeep team is not even remotely interested. There is also nothing from Fiat while we have pages and pages of new announcements from Maruti and Hyundai and even the smaller players. Yet you expect Fiat to sell - sell what dreams, non existent vehicles or 8 year old cars :)
    gpunto75 likes this.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    @Raj_pol

    hey, i am THE only one saying they're NOT going to (be able to) sell-well, while you seem still to think that this or that will change things. :rolleyes:

    Why do you think i've been banging on about exports-first and foremost, and downsized dealership-numbers, e-commerce, etc. Seems like Manley and Jeep (let alone Fiat) also realize exports are the MAIN thing, out of India, NOT sales in it! Good, because that is the truth.

    We've seen the response to the Abarth despite the massively favourable huge media and web fora coverage AND tons of (wasted on Indians) advertizing. etc.;) The aam-aadmi-s, such as "yourself":D;), will not be buying fiats or jeeps or vw-s or skoda-s or tata-s or ford-s or chevy-s or nissan-s in numbers enough for these firms to be even minimally hopeful of any return-on-effort-imagination-and-investment. In many many a year, if ever.

    They're perfectly interested in JEEP, just that Mike Manley and Marchionne very rightly know India's not worth too much more than 7-10 dealers (over the first 2 years) and a base for exports of the c-suv. A reuters brief interview he gave recently in the usa also sounded rather un-impressed by India's so-called potential as a retail-market.

    The Indian market realities really, got nothing to do with their 'enthu-level' or 'commitment-level' or 'aggression' and other such new-age management/selfhelp buzz/BS-words. They have hundreds of new dealers in China, and there they're not the that big either.

    The problem with many Indians, including some of us, is that we fail to see how insignificant and mediocre we are as a market or indeed as a country in the eyes of the rest of the world, including many companies and brands such as Toyota too, which too is deeply inactive in india despite a potent brand and humunguous pricing-power. Let's not believe in our own 'national branding' (these days) too much!:meh:

    The Indian car market's an oligopoly and even Jeep let alone Fiat or Chevy or Nissan or VW will take FOREVER reaching profitable large-sales-volumes . Most of these firms now only persist in india because they can export india-made and -offered models (Ford, Nissan-Renault, VW and soon Chevy too). Remember: cars and suv-s cost too much: India is still a bottom-of-global-pyramid (a euphemism for third-world and rather dysfunctional) type market (i.e., more for facebook and youtube and chinese cellphone firms and mnc soap and shampoo brands etc than for global-standard cars).

    The launch was headed-up by the Jeep director of global marketing, senior enough. (it's in the link). Personally mefeels Kevin Flynn was enough, really.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2016 ---
    @asimpleson

    How are they half-hearted with the Jeep launch? They're doing everything they have to, not least being setting-up local manufacturing (unlike Toyota and Ford who import their suv-s almost-fully). Nothing more, or less. They will NOT blow up any more money than they have to, that is not the Marchionne way. VW tried that approach with the vw and skoda brands and they're sitting on 1000's of crores of losses (adding lots more as i type with their 750 crore India-only sub-4m Polo with-butt).

    As i said, JEEP've setup hundreds of new dealerships and tons of potent, imaginative and effective huge new marketing in Brzail, Europe and China just in the last 2 years or less: because the market openings and prospects there are good, while here the tiny cake has mostly already been eaten (by 2-4 brands at the mass end, and 2-3 at the expensive end.)

    As for Mumbai: it's a tiny market where they're stuck for now without dealers. Let's see where in Mumbai the Jeep dealer opens (Mumbai is listed among the first 7 cities for dealerships.) The real issue for an SUV-brand like Jeep is in Delhi NCR, bigger than the next 5/6 biggest cities/metros put-together) thanks to the anti-diesel emissions and anti-large-car sentiment in the courts, the state govt and among ngo-s and many citizens.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  3. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Mumbai is not tiny market for luxury or semi luxury market. When luxury SUVs or rather their brand's ownership image one does not want to associate with wherein Jeeps could present a viable alternative to the newer breed of successful executives and entrepreneurs who take small cars for daily drive but like to go out with family or friends for touring purposes. When Mercedes or other premium brands are taking advantage of increasing premium car sales why cannot Jeep. It could taste some success for sure. But then setting up a Mumbai dealer capable of investing is definitely looking difficult also because their efforts as always are slow and gauging which is perhaps good for business from curtailing losses, but defensive tactics are also making them less visible and a weak company image to trust their hard earned money on.
    prabhjot likes this.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    Yes, @asimpleson it is not at all an easy-business (pun intended). There is currently an epidemic of dealership shut-downs for many brands in many many locations, not least Mumbai and delhi ncr and gurgaon. I'd guess or rather hope they combine Jeep with existing or new Fiat ones in most of the biggest cities, esp Mumbai? Also in Mumbai esp South/central they could look at combining the new Maserati one with Jeep (Bandra Kurla, is it?)

    If we had already-developed a usa-like multi-brand/firm retailing, f&i AND ass system by third parties, then firms like fiat and Jeep, or Skoda or nissan or chevy etc would've found brand-translation into indians' trust (more than knowledge and affection) much easier.

    That is why Maruti says it will invest 5000+ crores over the next 5 years or more in buying land and buildings which it will then lease out to dealers. Maruti knows that by doing so they render-permanent and impossible-to-dilute their great lead in dealer+ass locations, numbers, convenience, reliability, predictability etc, by making its dealer-principals free of the burdens of high property rents etc.
    asimpleson likes this.
  5. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    @prabhjot -- They can sell 1500 GC's in a few months if they could do one-to-one marketing to Netas and convince them. Maybe CEO interacting directly with all MP's & MLA's of our country will be a great move as the corrupt Netas have tonnes of cash to burn and they could easily sell 1500 GC's :)

    I had emailed mangesh.kodalkar on the real-estate route and COCO model. Investment there will only appreciate. But, FCA will spend more money and time on changing color of alloys and roof and keep rehashing the same old thing over-and-over-and-over again till they themselves are left with no more rehashing options. Now with 125-S announced, I don't think there will be anything new on sedan front till 2018. So bye bye Tipu/Tipo/Aegea.

    FCA will never learn even from their own mistakes, forget about learning from mistakes of Ford et al. In India, I guess they will end up as a engine making company that makes few cars also and not vice versa.
    prabhjot and asimpleson like this.
  6. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @rusticnomad A company sitting on profits has to decide for once how important a product is for a market. If they second guess their ability to penetrate the market and go slow everytime there will always be that problem of trust deficit in the group. Most buyers are taking an educated guess about technology and company's values with regards market commitments. If your intent is slow and secrective why or how will people take notice. I had precisely the point in mind of netas and builders and corruption and sudden influx of land dealing overnight rich crowds. These are infact as you mentioned even bigger and better candidates, the corrupt corporator types.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
    prabhjot and rusticnomad like this.
  7. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    @asimpleson -- So land grabbers, builders, dons, all the others from similar pool added to the mix and making it possible to sell even 15000. This is where FCA lacks thinking out of the box. Yea the corporators who go from Mumbai to Andaman to study how municipality works. Add them to the mix and number could swell from 15000 to 30000 :)

    They think that just because Linea sells in Turkey & other places it has to sell here. It's no fun patting-your-back for "technical excellence" of machinesif it cannot be matched by commercial excellence.

    FCA needs marketing brilliance backed by brilliant-and-fresh products in a very aggressive way. Rehashes won't work Give everything that a customer is looking for -- look at how Ford has succeeded on the back of just one hit product - Ecosport and look at how they have priced their Endeavor lower than what they do in Australia. Rehashing a product 4 times a year and calling it new product is criminal to say the least. The real success of the Boss (trying to bully around with GM) is not in succeeding where they are already succeeding but turning around in a market where they have a cold response. Cold response is because of "Endless-rehashing" trap that FCA has got itself into. If something isn't working, just recycle the dies and get new product. It ain't gonna work. Avventura, Abarth punto all failed because they tried using the same old PUNTO.

    Being defensive will not work in a fiercely competitive market. So what if they make a LOSS for 3 years. They have to bear it. Being profitable or loss making is of least concern to a buyer. They want new models, drl's, auto folding mirrors. Why not just give them. Why PUSH something that isn't working -- aka changed grills, changed colors, changed alloy designs but the same old dies where it matters the most. Buyers aren't fools. For example, I see no reason why I should buy 125S. From few meters away, it's the same old Linea.

    Hope in Auto Expo 2018 Mr Kevin isn't standing next to a 2009 Linea T-Jet and calling it a New Product T-Jet Pure :D :D
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
    Raj_pol and asimpleson like this.
  8. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    For sometime I have been calling it 'Khufiya launch' tactics and correctly so esp even in case of Jeep. Everything seems always at beta stage. The website updates also. Ford I have mentioned elsewhere in private chats that they deserve full marks on the efforts they take. And they see reasonable success which tapers off at later stages as their products are outdone sooner traditionally if you look at them. Figo had similar story too.
    prabhjot and Raj_pol like this.
  9. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    Yes on Figo, but then they launched a new design to try and pick up from their. If Figo was a FCA product they would have just change the grill, some colors and alloys and given it some new suffix Figo-*. FCA is still not reconcile to the fact that Premier Padmini Vs Amby days are long over!

    Just wondering -- if they have to come up worth launching a new product, why all this camouflaged testing for two years? Get 5 cars -- go around a trip of 30k km doing 1000/day, fix problems and repeat. Any testing of an already tested product shouldn't take years. By the time Renegade comes, it will be DOA -- as there have been years of testing rounds going around in India. The styling, as is, doesn't look appealing compared to Ecosport or Creta.

    500X would have been far better if we go by the success of Creta or Ecosport. So basically FCA pushes a product rather than trying to excel over competitors. Let's see how many rehashes Renegade would go through. My guess is at least 5 and then end up blaming customers that they aren't buying a planted drive :)
  10. bibin

    bibin Regolare

    Messages:
    297
    kochi
    Mumbai, New Delhi, Chennai, Ahmedabad, Bengaluru, Kochi and Hyderabad are going to be the inital markets for jeep.

    Pinnacle Fiat from cochin is in the foray to get the dealership from FCA for jeep and as per them if everything goes fine they will open the dealership by August-16.
    prabhjot likes this.

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