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SCOOP!! - The JEEP's have cometh !!

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    497
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot @Murphy_Fiat One day sir we would need to talk on marketing but more on that another day. The very reason that one has to tread carefully is because Jeep is a clean slate. Now since very few folks are aware of Jeep to get numbers in a country like India the first thing is pricing.

    Take an e.g. In Australia the Ford Endeavor and the Grand Cherokee are priced similarly. Now the Ford has been released for 26 L and so the Jeep could have dragged maybe to 30. (At least for a comparable model - they can have higher priced models with more power, torque etc.) That could have been possible if they started manufacturing in India. Now by going the CBU route you are delivering a still born baby as no one will buy a Jeep for 80 L.

    So two things here:

    1. If manufacturing in India is not at all possible then why waste time bringing in stuff that folks will not buy

    2. On the other hand if they have plans to manufacture in India then what is the hurry - set up everything and start from 2017 but with well defined models at correct price points so that you can blow away the competition.

    Monocoque - what is that and when have we Indians cared about ride and handling. :D

    The Fortuner crowd cares about size and show off for not too much money.

    2018 is too late - by then the world would have moved to some other format.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    2,451
    delhi ncr
    @Raj_pol

    A lot wrong there, am afraid, or at least disagree-able.

    The Grand Cherokee in Australia is much higher priced version-for-version than the Ford Everest/Endeavour=Ranger pickup truck. The latter in India has i believe been released for more like 30+ or so. Perhaps you're confusing it with the Cherokee? Remember: FORD imports them into Australia from thailand (i think?), while Grand Cherokee's are made only in the USA, with its higher costs and the strongest US$ in many decades (relative to the Aussie $, rupee, yen, baht, real etc). And are a whole different type and class of vehicle.

    The thing about marketing is that: it is NOT about sales numbers.

    It is about getting people to pay a high-enough price per unit, either by 'fooling' them (e.g., Hyundai in india, or Toyota Innova and fortuner buyers) or because of a more or less 'sincere' rhetoric of ascribed and potentially accepted by enough folks: 'value', which in turn can in principle be ANYTHING whatsoever, but in JEEP's case (or Land Rover's or Mercedes') means much more specific things (authenticity of design and engineering and 'image'.)

    It matters not a jot whether it is made in india or imported, ckd or cbu. What matters is the maximization of per-unit-margins, relative to costs (investments in plant and tooling and supply chain, marketing, currency values/shifts etc.)

    That is what defines the power and pull of a brand, not sales numbers. That is why Mercedes around the world are on average, version for version, notably more expensive and higher-margin than Audi-s: in the usa, in europe, and in china as well as india.

    Remains to be seen how many they sell at the 60lakhs and well above the Grand Cherokee will retail at: that will be all about the brand-establishment and persuasion and imprinting they achieve (or not).

    The Grand Cherokee is in any case not the main 'play' here: the indian market's miniscule for such vehicles. The main play is the brand-establishment for the long term so that the more affordable, locally-made and export-centric C-suv (and whatever else, cheaper, if any: later) can sell in good-enough numbers to profitably provide the scale economies for the local-making-for-exports.

    Obviously: even the Germans do not do anything more than tariff-beating ckd for their "suv-s" in India, except BMW which is increasingly doing some local sourcing of low-tech parts.

    Am sure they'll have no difficulty selling a dozen, or eventually 2/3 dozen, Grand Cherokees each month, as the dealerships rollout. If Kejriwal and the courts and anti-pollution-and-congestion types (such as meself!;-)) let such big diesel suv-s sell much at all in the first place (in the medium-term) in many cities!

    IN FACT: fca is the first company to be setting up local-manufacturing (not mere assembly operations) for a model (with one or more coming later?) that is proper-world-class i.e., d-segment and above.

    The c-suv/Compass will be the first and for a long while the ONLY full-euro/japan/usa-spec, non-entry-level-budget-car, model from a prestigious-enough brand largely-made AND exported from India.

    Hitherto, ALL models from all firms in India have been 'third world specials with lipstick and bling' or at best 'low-cost emerging market adapted-from-europe' models-with-imported-powertrains (e.g., VW Polo and Vento tsi+dsg, or the Abarth Punto). Even the Corolla and the inexpensive Elantra sedans are nearly entirely just ckd. One or two recent Suzuki-s and hyundai-s are exported in a different-spec to Europe, where they are pretty-much very inexpensive budget-entry-level models (Baleno, i20) from budget-brands-in-Europe (Suzuki, Hyundai).

    i.e., FCA will be a pioneer when it comes to automotive manufacture and, more importantly: high value-added, high-price exports. Toyota, with the Fortuner, let alone the german trio, do very little value-addition manufacturing and exports from india, if any!

    I hope FCA feels free to go down even lower in price (though not brand-engineering and design quality) than the Fortuner-like (+/-) C-suv/Compass, post 2017. Hell, even as low as 12/13 lakhs, if they decide to do a smaller, sub-Renegade model as Marchionne himself says (5 days ago, at the Detroit Auto Show) they're discussing, and for which india would be the ideal manufacturing and export hub?
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
    asimpleson likes this.
  3. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

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    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    @prabhjot -- I think Ford Endeavor pricing will really make Fortuner feel the heat. FCA has to go Ford's way in terms of product launches and pricing.
    prabhjot and Amit Rox like this.
  4. nikhil0405

    nikhil0405 Amatore

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    117
    Pune
    Linea 1.3
    That is a tall statement to make. Price of any product will be governed by demand. The demand is high and hence the price.
    Moreover a buyer nowadays is smart and will pay a high price only if he sees value. Bashing other cars in this way is of no use.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
    prabhjot and dadasaheb like this.
  5. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,451
    delhi ncr
    @nikhil0405

    Well, that's not true, really! @nikhil0405 .

    SINCE: the price and the sales-numbers are a function of brand-trust/pull/lure/allure and herd-bias-based feedback loops, NOT a mere function of pre-exiting demand, pre-existing value calculus in large number of buyers' heads.

    e.g., a Fiat-branded Creta would neither get even a tenth of the sales nor at even 60/70% of the price. But a Hyundai-branded Avventura would sell at the prices of the i20 Active (i.e., with creamy profit margins).

    All brand building has a component that exceeds any reciprocal, free and equal and rational and legal market exchange. Brands and sub-brands ARE mostly about fooling, being-fooled, and fooling-oneself, being-fooled-by-other-owners etc. Marketing and Advertizing 101 ! Especially in the car market in India, which is the by-far MOST concentrated in the world with just 2 firms controlling 70+% of sales, and just 3 controlling 80%+ or even more if you count the third not as Honda but take Mahindra instead.

    The success in terms of sales numbers does NOT prove that it is a case of the 'customer knows best what is of relative value and at what relative price for him'.

    The car customer is, mostly India, GIVEN the price and the 'value' by....others, namely the 'market', the brand/company and advertzing/blind trust/etc-influenced ambient opinion. He does not, on average GIVE that price or that value. That is why we have such market concentration behind just 2/3 brands and firms.

    EVEN the most irrational/exploited/foolish and fooled car customer (eg., us Fiat owners, or say Nissan or Chevy or Tata or Skoda+VW ones, or so say the sales figures and very widespread opinion) IS (pretended by the firms and the marketing guys) to be "KING". Or in Hyundai's case an "Elite" who knows waht a 'Perfect Suv' is!

    etc.

    we could discuss this further on PM, if you care to, since it is somewhat OT to the Jeep brand strategy thread.

    cheers
    Amit Rox, jackharrisw and rusticnomad like this.
  6. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    @prabhjot -- I would never buy a Hyundai. Maruti is just too many on the road so never going to buy that too.
    Let's see how market gets new products in around 2018, one of our cars would be due for replacement.
    If nothing exciting from Fiat comes, I would go for Chevrolet Cruze LTZ. Linea T-Jet will stay with us till it is ready to be sold as scrap by weight :)

    However, if FIAT does come up with Aegea, 500X or "Cherokee Trailhawk in Fortuner price band" then who knows I may graduate to a SUV. Drool worthy :)

    Raj_pol, Tornado, Amit Rox and 3 others like this.
  7. Murphy_Fiat

    Murphy_Fiat Superiore

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    648
    Trivandrum
    Trivandrum
    Linea T-Jet
    Official : Jeep Launch Tomorrow (3rd Feb, 2016) 2:00 PM At Hall 10, Auto Expo 2016.

    unnamed.jpg
  8. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,451
    delhi ncr
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/auto/s...india-by-mid-year-with-2-models/1/586555.html

    To deal with the issues arising out of the diesel emissions and pollution etc issues the Grand Cherokee and Wrangler will also be offered with the 3.6 Pentastar v6 petrol engine, to be offered somewhat later than the initial diesels.

    7 dealerships in metros first off, expanded to 10 by the time the c-suv local manufacture begins in 2017. Whether these dealerships will be dovetailed fully with existing FIAT ones at existing locations or will be seperate, perhaps with the same dealer-owners, is as yet unclear.

    Aside:

    The fact that Mike Manley the global Jeep, Ram and FCA apac boss did not turn up points to the great under-importance, bordering on irrelevance of the Indian market for (not just) FCA.

    I actually agree! This market is just not worth that much effort, being rather stagnant over the last 4-5 years and going nowhere either, and more to the point: with high-domination by just 2-4 brands, including for SUVs: Toyota, other than as a manufacturing and r&d hub for exports?

    Milk it for a few high-margin sales (Wrangler, Grand Cherokee, Maserati and Ferrari) + perhaps good-sales for the local-for-export c-suv at the more 'affordable' end, that is it. And if the brand sees good traction and trust-establishment (unlikely as that could be) bring the Renegade or a sub-renegade model, but again mainly for exports, since this market will benchmark you against.....such 'perfect suv-s' as the Creta!

    As for the FIAT brand: the exact same story. Bring for local manufacture only those new models that are majorly export-capable and -centric, if any, perhaps even back-to-europe. If such models are found unviable for Indian manufacture, well then: don't bother.

    Just offer cbu-s or ckd-s (124 spider, 500, abarth-s, 500X, Aegea, upcoming 500XL) say at the Jeep stores?

    Unless Maruti Suzuki opens up its NEXA sales and service centres to FIAT or at least to JEEP: there's little likely return-on-effort-or-investment in India for (not only!) FCA. :dead::hilarious: Hey now that's an idea! How about it Maruti? You don't and will never have any 'premium' models to offer, neither in image nor brand-history-identity, nor design nor engineering (though the Kizashi was truly splendid on the last 2 counts): how can NEXA make any sense if you don't? Take your domination in the market even further, become a retailer of other frims' cars/suv-s too. :p
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
    asimpleson and Murphy_Fiat like this.
  9. Murphy_Fiat

    Murphy_Fiat Superiore

    Messages:
    648
    Trivandrum
    Trivandrum
    Linea T-Jet
    prabhjot and Dinesh Kumar like this.
  10. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
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    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @prabhjot utter hogwash that big capacity Petrol. 10% FE and Power improvements is fine but low nox and co2 in real test conditions will put great majority cars off roads. The factor of decongestion I can agree. But promoting an aggressive diesel efficiency perks policy is in the national interest and also global in ways. On a much deeper level of public transport we can or should discuss on different thread perhaps. :)

    Back to the original topic the Jeeps launch still shows half hearted and ultra cautious approach of profits or losses reflects the will of FCA and clearly shows or projects by these half hearted looking approaches. Why am I not glad? Cause they still are baffled it seems about their failures and just don't seem to get it that they need big time efforts on every front to look like serious contender. If Ford can sell rather effortlessly in their small ways with their car portfolio Fiat or FCA should have no problem because the products themselves are great. It just feels like policy paralysis and the time lost is making things more difficult by the day. Abarth Punto sales in Mumbai are miserable due to dealership issues. What hope does Jeep have unless big dealers from South Mumbai for example are roped in to market and service support.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
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