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Safety concerns of Maruti

Discussion in 'Safety First!' started by renjithlal, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. carl_jhonson

    carl_jhonson Amatore

    Messages:
    98
    Chennai
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    Speed lock at 60 kmph? :happy: Today a celerio overtook me very fast. Must be about 140 kmph :eek: Few weeks ago an Alto overtook me at about 120 kmph. No need to say how fast the owners of bigger siblings like ciaz and baleno drive.
  2. GANESH H

    GANESH H Amatore

    Messages:
    73
    Maharashtra
    Maharashtra
    Linea 1.3
    I think it is unfair to blame one car manufacturer to show or prove how the Fiat cars are safer than Maruti Suzuki cars. Now Maruti Suzuki offers airbags as optional even in basic variant but Fiat offers airbags in top Model and even doesn't give an optional in basic variants. We are passionate about Fiat cars but that doesn't mean to blame other car manufacturers is necessary to prove our loyalty with Fiat. In October 2012 my friend wanted to buy Maruti sx4, I went with him to Maruti showroom (Ace kudale cars pune) in my Linea dynamic mjd. Sales person asked whether I wanted to exchange my Linea (2010) with sx4. I asked him how much price you could give for my car. He asked his manager to test drive my car and while he was driving my car that manager said to that sales guy, ' Fiat cars are very good to drive and Maruti cars can't match the driving feel and sturdy build of Fiat cars but customers often sell their Fiat cars due to lack of good aftersale service which Maruti offers.' I mean to say that in general Fiat cars are known for their strong build and good driving dynamics then why should we get into blame game with negative point of view?
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
  3. Tornado

    Tornado Superiore

    Messages:
    677
    Driver's seat.
    Western Maharashtra
    Avventura 1.3 90 HP
    @GANESH H,
    Base variants of Fiat cars have genes of safety( built & crumple zone protection) in their cars.
    Maruti cars are not safe even in top end trims. Their built is such that a inflating airbag would rupture due to inward sharp and pointed metal spicules of the torn body shell making the airbag's importance null & void.

    In the nCap tests, Swift got zero rating, meaning all the occupants would die if collision occurs @60kmph!
    prabhjot likes this.
  4. GANESH H

    GANESH H Amatore

    Messages:
    73
    Maharashtra
    Maharashtra
    Linea 1.3
    @Tornado, I agree with your statement as you said that the base variants of Fiat cars have genes of safety. But these basic variants will get zero star in NCAP crash test because airbags are absent in those basic variants and even if the car's structure remain stable during crash testing and this is the standard procedure. I can give you the one example of vw Polo. The base variant of Polo without airbags got zero star in NCAP crash test but the car's structure was remain stable but due to absencse of airbags, the car has got zero star then vw India made two airbags standard in every variant of Polo and asked NCAP to test it again and then Polo scored four stars. Maruti swift without airbags scored zero star and with airbags it has given three stars. If Maruti swift with airbags could score three stars then it must be with crumple zones and sufficient stable or strong structure. To pass the NCAP test airbags are must only strong build with crumple zones are insufficient. These two things are must ( airbags and crumple zones with strong structure ).
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 4, 2016 ---
    @Tornado, In LATIN NCAP crash test Maruti Suzuki swift with two airbags got three stars then how can you say Maruti cars are not safe even in top end trims. It may be true in case of alto, wagon R, celerio but swift, ciaz, vitara breeza are safer I think. I am not a Maruti Suzuki fan and also I am not interested in Maruti cars. But yes I am Fiat fan. Right now I am using Tata safari storme, Audi Q5 and now I don't need to buy another car but still I want to buy Fiat car in near future. My family members asked me to buy Honda city, varna but I said them that I just wanted to have Fiat car in our car parking again and none other brands could replace Fiat and right now I don't need any new car other than Fiat car. Means Fiat car is passion for me rather than necessity or need.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
    Tornado likes this.
  5. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    The fact of the matter is that Fiat India cars such as Punto Evo/Avvy/Linea havent officially been tested for NCAP results. Until that happens, the safety and build quality inference is to be derived from personal experiences only, unfortunately.I took a test drive of the Baleno Alpha petrol yesterday. The sheet metal quality, panel thickness didnt seem any less than a regular Maruti. I was more concerned with the lack of underbody engine protection- in fact, there is so much open space around the engine block, a kid can slide in there!I did not see any lateral beams. Also, nothing around the radiator area.
    But a few positives about the Baleno that Fiat must ponder about: 1) exceptional cabin space, very comfortable front seats, great rear seat space, one-finger-gear shifter (cant put it any other way)+light clutch, and very good petrol motor. That clutch+gear shifter combo itself wins a lot of newbie buyers. I used to defend Fiat's gear shift in previous discussions based on my Linea experience. But Baleno takes the smoothness to another level.
    GANESH H and Tornado like this.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,443
    delhi ncr
    Sturdiness of body panels, of chassis members, and redundancy+tolerance levels of various components is necessary in any case, not only for 'safety' (which last in any case depends on the test, the self-appointed arbiters like ncap whose judgments-pronounced are based on NO real world statistical evidence whatsoever, eg from the insurance industry or from police accident records).

    Because it is not just 'safety' in terms of the driver or passengers survival that counts: it is also repair-abillity of the car itself after a crash. The problem with the east asian marques in India (now joined by Ford with the Figo+Aspire) is that they get too-easily and very-expensively damaged even in low intensity shunts and scratches/scrapes let alone crashes. Bumpers break, bonnets bend and crumple, doors crunch. Likewise for suspension components: redundancy levels are NOT there, esp not on Hyundais and Maruti-s since they are ruthless exploiters of their pre-given market-trust levels and happily make cost-quality-tolerance/redundancy tradeoffs with their component designs and their vendor costing. Likewise for their engines: not only can they not be modded to the extent say a Fiat t-jet or mjd can, they are short-interval for their service for a reason. In fact for 2 reasons: the other one being ensuring good margins for dealers on service and repairs.

    IMO The Punto and Linea are by a distance the 'safest' cars in their respective segments (based on certain assumptions of speed and likelihood of a crash, etc, just like ncap's entirely arbitrary ones), even without airbags because: their combination of tyres, brakes, handling and steering IMO makes them less risky at higher speeds or during sudden evasive moves than any of their competitors. My Linea t-jet is vastly safer than a Honda City or a Maruti Ciaz because, among other things, it has 4 discs and stops several metres before they do from 80 to 0 (say). etc etc.

    It is ridiculous that ncap is being treated as a disinterested arbiter of crash safety: it is NOT, it is a commercialist organization with 'motives.' First proper Indian road-condition-suitable GC, suspension, steering and braking systems, then good sized and specced tyres, then seat belts. Then crumple zones. Then good sturdy redundancy-filled -- i.e., heavy, more or less --build of all sorts of components. And only then: airbags.

    Currently, we in india's slightly premium-priced-within-mass-market cars, we are in the ridiculous situation of so many cars hopelessly or quite-inadequate on the former fronts BUT boasting of....airbags! All caused by the complete absence of government regulations and a total lack of awareness of automotive safety, which is a SYSTEM of different components and sub-assemblies of a car (beyonf purported crumple zones+airbags) interacting in statistically patterned ways with other such systems (i.e, other automobiles) forming chaotic, interactive, risky systems with roads and policing etc etc. Safety is NOT a monocausal 'crumple-zone, structural integrity+airbags' one at all! It is 'holistic', which at the level of a single car requires good enough braking, steering etc systems BEFORE it does 2,4,6....airbags.

    NCAP's methodology of crash-centrism is perfectly illogical, since a crash often happens for many reasons IN THE FIRST PLACE. Not least because some cars are too under-specced on the steering, braking, tyres, suspension/handling fronts, esp for the power and speeds they can attain. Why focus on the crash event itself, and dispense with its causal history? That requires statistical knowledge that only the police and motor-pool insurers possess (ornot, in India?!), NOT ncap or any such.

    ONLY then can standards for 'safety engineering' be set, either by the government or by the 'market'. The idea prevalent in india that airbags+abs and one is safe (one that ncap is busy sponsoring for its own gain) is a reassuring, though costly, fantasy of a simple pop-a-pill purely-private facile approach to road and crash safety for car and occupants. Crash safety, statistically speaking, i.e., crash-risk-management, cannot in India be very dependent at all on airbags, that is for sure, when so much of the prior, priority basic stuff goes unattended (braking, steering, suspensions, tyre-specs....) by so many manufacturers and consumers here, as well as by the regulators, the police etc (traffic management, strict and impartial enforcement of seat-belting etc.)
    baz_303, krishna01 and GANESH H like this.
  7. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    OTOH, Maruti and Hyundai have a vast network of service centres and also many care points, plus mechanics and body shops are familiar with Maruti cars so much more than they are with others. So, for some weird reason, customers get comfort in this aspect. I posed as a somewhat of a newbie buyer with the Nexa sales advisor and he started the usual dose of utter nonsense about cars in general. Really, the basic problem is that customers are so ignorant and ill-educated about cars! People were obviously enamoured with the DRLs, the TFT screen (which looks pretty slick I must say), while here I was, ever the skeptic,opening the engine compartment, asking the SA why there was no underfloor protection for the engine .The other customers looked at me as if I was from Mars :greyalien:.
  8. Turbothinghy

    Turbothinghy Superiore

    Messages:
    817
    Pune
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    Well crumple zones are important, but the build quality is equally important IMO. In the last couple of weeks I have seen a Baleno rear-ending a Jetta and a Nano rear ending a Ciaz.
    In the first case, the Jetta got a minor scratch that won't be visible through naked eye, but the Baleno front was badly damaged and the airbags came out. It seemed as if it had hit a stationary truck at a high speed.
    In the second case, the Ciaz rear was badly damaged, in fact Nano took the hit a lot better than Ciaz.

    So while I do agree, that Maruti has made a good move by providing airbags and abs as standard on Baleno, but it only feels ironical at best. The airbags come into picture only after the body has taken the hit well, something I don't see in Maruti, thanks to their weak structure.
    baz_303, prabhjot, krishna01 and 3 others like this.
  9. carl_jhonson

    carl_jhonson Amatore

    Messages:
    98
    Chennai
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    An article written about nano rear ended ciaz incident, explains that it is because of crumple zones ciaz deformed more. Want to ask the author what if a cycle rear ends a ciaz? Will the crumple zones deform then as well. The crumple zones must be light enough to deform during a high speed crash and strong enough to withstand fender benders. In other words well engineered which is something Maruti is not known for.
    prabhjot and baz_303 like this.
  10. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    Another example right close to where I stay, which I saw yesterday. A Honda City boot was absolutely smashed in, and the offending car was a Hyundai I-10! The I-10 also had that typical bonnet crumple, but nothing up to the A-pillar.
    Couple of examples contrary to the above
    1) my BIL's stationary Palio was hit by an Amby in Delhi. The Palio suffered only a bumper bruise, while the Amby's front fascia was, lets say, all over the place.
    2) I hit the brakes on my Micra to avoid a motorcyclist on the busy road to office one morning, only to be banged into by a Swift. The Micra had its bumper pushed in, but the Swift had a broken bonnet , bruised front left fender and a smashed left-side headlamp. And this had to be a moderate speed impact since the traffic speed was an average of 20 kph.
    baz_303 and prabhjot like this.

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