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Rumor : Fiat brand to Exit from India report

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by gazgotta, Sep 9, 2016.

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  1. Krunal Bhatt

    Krunal Bhatt Amatore

    Messages:
    65
    Ahmedabad
    Ahmedabad
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @rusticnomad
    There are chances that you may get good deal on Avvnetura Abarth. But if possible please go for Urban Cross,Magnesio Grey(or similar color). And don't forget to post pics. :)
    rusticnomad likes this.
  2. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    Yes, will weigh all options as have lot of time till April 2017 to decide.
    2016 m/f date if available then would carry discounts too. More the merrier.
    For Avvy, Red/Orange is the majority opinion in family -- but that's something that we take a final call when we go ahead.
    Urban Cross, the color in Auto Expo looked good.

    For some odd reasons, speculation is that it will cost more than Avvy:
    https://motoroctane.com/upcoming/27060-fiat-avventura-urban-cross

    Currently playing the famous FCA game -- Wait n Watch :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 15, 2016 ---
    @Krunal Bhatt - I see you are from AHM.
    Do they offer Abarth vehicles for TD there?
  3. Krunal Bhatt

    Krunal Bhatt Amatore

    Messages:
    65
    Ahmedabad
    Ahmedabad
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @rusticnomad
    Nope, they have one for display only.
    And I think for TD they have EVO only not even Avventura.
    rusticnomad likes this.
  4. SwifttoPunto

    SwifttoPunto Novizio

    Messages:
    47
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    @Krunal Bhatt Just noticed that the message you received is a standard message that they are giving to anyone who raises this issue. If we look at their facebook page, they have given this same message to whoever raised this concern.
    prabhjot and Krunal Bhatt like this.
  5. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,441
    delhi ncr
    THAT was an Expo 'concept' i.e., slightly absurd eye catcher only, it turns out. I think it looks great, and subtle-enough, and i hope they have that red leather as-an-option-'pack', a sort-of decadent-customization possibility?! Go buy it @rusticnomad, sir? :)
  7. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    Article says that red seat covers will be available as optional pack.
    Can the Avventura tire go into the boot by removing the thermocol? If yes, then I think I will prefer Avventura over Urban cross if I can get a tire shaped fuel tank that can fit in place of the tire on the rear assembly. Can help during trips to Himalayas.

    Second reason is the visual differentiating factor from a distance.
    Let's see how they price it.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
    prabhjot likes this.
  8. Krunal Bhatt

    Krunal Bhatt Amatore

    Messages:
    65
    Ahmedabad
    Ahmedabad
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @SwifttoPunto
    Oooppsss..... Yes that seems standard reply. But, at least they clarified that.

    Anyway, Read the review of Urban Cross, Same interior of Punto and No DRLs. Those things were disappointing. I know those were for expo purpose only but they could offer them as optional. And no standard Airbag, that is big minus, i would say.
  9. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    GoI is thinking on making parking sensors as mandatory across all vehicles.
    http://auto.ndtv.com/news/reverse-parking-sensors-will-be-soon-made-mandatory-on-new-cars-1456634

    Why sensors, it should be CAMERA, when ICE is moving toward touchscreen based setups. They should do this for Airbags and ABS too, instead of making a contunuous BEEP after 90 as mandatory.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,441
    delhi ncr
    @acechip

    'Make in India' has never been the problem, it is 'Sell in India' and 'Build Image and Trust in India' that are, as far as the automotive industry goes.

    Hyundai and Suzuki were the earliest and strongest mnc-movers, and they accumulated lots of priveleges from the state and central government, they STILL recieve epic 'subsidies' of one sort (free land and tax abatements) or another (freedom from tariff burdens for their imported content), etcetera.

    Others came here in the spirit of the 'emerging-markets' boom: they thought India would be the next china, and they had been emerging-markets specialists in the 70's and 80's past, as well as the present (Toyota, Honda, Nissan in S E Asia and the Middle East.)

    GM hyper-achieved in China by coming-in early there and emerged top-dog in that market, true today even more than 20 years ago. Ford came here in order to mimic GM's life-saving move-to-China, assuming a similar boom, and a similar open-mindedness as in China as to brands and automotive culture/taste. Last VW came, late though, also trying to arrogantly assume the Indian middle class is booming and is aspirational, just like China was back in the 90's, they'll surely lust after Das Auto just the way VW got lusted after over in China, and then Skoda can always be a VW-clone only cheaper. ETC.

    But for a number of reasons (especially that, on average, the Indian customer wants status, reliability, resale, looks+gizmos and aftersales assurance above and beyond everything else like engineering qualities or brand-identity/history, etc) they've all failed here, including Nissan+Renault who're now having to resort to the good-old more-for-less Datsun ultra-third-world-car-with-lipstick approach (Kwid, Redigo...).

    And lost a big pile of money too, while also depleting whatever puny reservoirs of goodwill and trust the average Indian car buyer (plus his uncleji, yaars, and biwi bacche) had in them. Toyota will succeed in the Indian mass market, eventually, and obviously but even Honda's been financially-hurt very badly by their must-compete-with-third-world-or-discount-brand-specialist-Hyundai approach in EM's, esp in India. FORD has just seen their attempt at such models bomb, very expensively: Figo+Aspire.

    Meanwhile FIAT has been exactly where it was when it launched the Palio: great cars, superbly adapted to India and our 'third world' conditions yet kind-of euro-spec in engineering and design, affordable, fun etc, pukka adapted-models not 'pirated edition' cars-with-lipstick, BUT with the incorrigible issue of up-and-down-and-up-and-... dealers/service/ass.

    Meanwhile: a large second hand market's evolved (obviously) and Maruti, Hyundai and Mahindra (maybe Tata too, with lots of luck and even-more capital-for-no-return) have achieved trust, 'image'/'status', consistency and repeat-ability of dealers, resale and now supposed high-style and purported high-tech.

    i.e., the market's achieved a structure, with HUGE and increasing INERTIA.

    i.e., other firms will have to, just like Tata, invest many thousands of crores before they can join the stable steady ranks of MS, HY, MHdra, Toyota (and maybe Tata), IF they can at all, which last is very doubtful imo.

    Meanwhile, the market's been stagnant since 2012, and still is (when one considers uber/ola discounted sales and ALL the all-new model launches), while also having completely failed to grow at the China-like rates that everyone had assumed when they first came to India.

    Meanwhile, high tariffs, differential tax and other subsisides to some firms but not others etcetera, plus the whole fuel-pricing peculiarity of India plus the new emissions etc regulations coming (maybe) in 2020, plus the crises caused by the non-regulated nature of the auto industry's offerings here leaves many firms an their dealers with little hope of doing-well-enough in India or with Indian consumers.

    Through all this, whether through wise restraint or by-accident or via-risk-aversion, FCA has made lots of money in India, but none through the FIAT brand itself (engines, the tata jv, amt-s...., instead) and will continue to.

    Firms that piled into India seeking a future-China have ALL haemorraged thousands of crores each, the market's been locked-down by MS+HY (the first 2 early AND competent, unlike FIAT/PAL, movers) mainly, plus Mahindra, plus in the d-segment by Toyota.

    Problem is: what to do with the plants, the factories, the often-excellent workforces of engineers and workers? Remember: cannot shut them down, witness GM's expensive travails trying to shut down their gujarat (halol) plant, due to political-pressure from on-very-'high'.

    One and only one hope: exports.

    AND for one firm (FCA) the possibility of deploying another, familiar and charismatic, fast-growing-globally brand (JEEP) to take advantage of the huge-turn-to-socalled-'SUV's, as well as the possibility of deploying one or two of their expensive Euro (Alfa, Maserati) or American (Chrysler, Dodge) brands as well, in the future.

    To withdraw FIAT from India would be a prudent and brand-protective move from FCA (do not want it getting beat up any further here, will not dilute brand-dna, one may want/need it in the distant future in India, again), then.

    There are one or three other car firms in India thinking along similar lines. BUT they have a problem namely massive sunk costs and accumulated losses in India. AND for their brands India is essential, since they cannot grow much anymore in China (GM, VW, Renault-Nissan, Honda, Toyota), least of all with their 'third world style' models. China is 'ahead' of India by at least 15 years, in automotive-market terms. AND, unlike China which is hyper-competitive and ultra-open to various brands, India has a quasi-oligopoly-with-ample-public-support of 2-3 ultra-entrenched firms (MS, HY+ 1or2 others.)

    FCA is singular in that sense, being such a new and young merged firm: for it China huge-growth is only just in stage#1, they've got HUGE pentup demand for their models and brands (other than FIAT) there, their China 'growth story' is just taking-off, just as VW's or Chevrolet's etc has peaked out.

    i.e., again FCA does NOT 'need' India as an emerging-market, when it has the baap of EMs namely China waiting with ongoing and assured future high-margin demand for Jeeps, Maserati-s, Alfas, Chryslers, Rams and odges. As also ASEAN/se asian markets for Jeep and AlfaRomeo.

    i.e., FCA will in my judgment, and should, NOT do anything India-special whatsoever. ergo: no FIAT-based investments. ONLY the other brands and nameplates, mainly Jeep, and entirely a function of export-fit catering to rhd demand in Asia and maybe the UK (mainly and foreseeably: only JEEP.) Plus of course the thin but very creamy layer of luxury/sports car and brands sales (Maserati, Ferrari, later Alfa and maybe Chrysler at some distant point, against the German trio?)

    The ONLY issue to give pause is: how to ensure sustainability and viability for the new or renewed 'combined FCA' dealerships, now JEEP-centric? If localized Jeep sales+say Alfa+say Chrysler-branded models are not enough, over time, they will need FIAT sales in India (only for dealers' sake, a kind-of loss-leader brand that enables profits through other, more profitable/prestigious and expensive brands (Jeep+(later)Alfa+Chrysler.)

    Who knows the real numbers and data points, but IMO sales of Jeeps (esp of the c-suv and the 2018 b-suv, Ranjangaon-made, plus 1 or 2 ckd models say the Cherokee) to the tune of say 800-1000 (what Mercedes and Audi sell in India) a month should be more than enough for this purpose (the dealers' sustainability), as a floor, with a large upside potential well-beyond that (given the 2 localized suvs, from say 12 lakhs to say 25+ lakhs.) Creamy margins on cbu or future-ckd Jeep tiny-sales like say the Wrangler or the Cherokee, plus of course cbu or future-ckd Alfa-s or Chryslers should further gladden/fatten the purses of the (re)newed dealers, after all.

    A compact dealer body catering only to the biggest 30-50 (sub)markets/cities, plus deployment of third-party after-sales providers in many places should be amply enough?

    FIATs are not needed, not even for dealers' sustainability? They, including Abarth, may be retained in some (say ckd or even, just-cbu form) for "representational purposes." Waiting for an-other 'coming' some time in the "who knows?" distant future? As for the Ranjangaon plant, an already stable and profitable one: it'll be only-ever-busier thanks to exports of Jeeps, and thanks to the increased Tata 2 new-suvs (Safari replacements) and the current/next Bolt+Zest, supplying and exporting engines esp the 1.3 and the 2litre mjd and transmisisons, etc.
    Nadeem Ahmed VR 46 likes this.
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