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Performance filters are dangerous for the engine!!!

Discussion in 'Hangout' started by drifter, May 8, 2012.

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  1. drifter

    drifter Regolare

    Messages:
    310
    London/Mumbai
    I don't get why you people read things into statements rather than read what is there! Performance tuning is a very small market in India at this moment in time. Most of the people who buy these items are on one or a couple of enthusiasts forums. Most of the Indians are scared to buy anything they do not have heard of (and therefore ask others) or are worried about warranty issues. The Nano shows how it works. a couple of cars catch fire and 95% of the population is up in arms. If cotton gauze filters are as bad as you and others make out then only idiots would pay for 1000 listings at a time to sell them.


    You don't need to teach me anything about air intakes. I design them all day long. This you tube video you promote here is for the practical side of motoring virtually useless.

    This was just a test with some sort of particles for not even a minute each.

    If you want to make a conclusive test it has got to last for at least 24hours.

    Additionally it has to varied by running it under dry conditions, high humidity, water ingression, vibration etc. This is the reason why manufacturers test for 15 to 20 lakhs km before in real time conditions releasing a new car, which is after all the lab tests.

    I know about all these tests and many more. With 32 years of automotive engineering experience developing products for the automotive industries I still have no reason to not use cotton gauze. It it seems that every idiots opinion is worth more than high investment, endless testing and development.

    I wonder how often I have to repeat my question before I get an answer? Where is the proof that cotton gauze filters are detrimental for the engine and the MAF?

    It is a simple question considering that people come up with all sorts of things from the net. Why not finding the proof?

    GIVE ME THE PROOF or is it too simple?



    ---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 PM ----------

    Shaj, this means that the 5% of the 5% are just you me and Jayadev.:mrgreen:

    By the way, I am not sure as yet when I can be back. Will stay in touch.

    It is a test

    BUT WHAT DOES IT PROVE?
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  2. theblack

    theblack Esperto

    Messages:
    2,188
    Bangalore
    that more dust enters through gauze and in turn ,the damage
    I dont have anything to lose..
    Those who like to go with them can willfully do so, none of my business..
    If anyone does feel that dust entering though filters is the cause of damage then they will think twice else its their choice
    I'm out of this topic.. It makes no sense anymore to me to argue.
    1 person likes this.
  3. drifter

    drifter Regolare

    Messages:
    310
    London/Mumbai
    The one who is arguing is you!

    I asked a question of proof, which you want to answer with what you consider logic!

    Then you continue with an 'if'

    It is good that you are out of the topic as this is not a question of arguing rather than bringing in facts.
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  4. jayadev

    jayadev Esperto

    Messages:
    1,057
    Kannur, India
    Kannur
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    Sure ebay is not Good platform then which one is , is it Youtube ?

    come on!!

    I can vouch that that video is nothign but a marketing propaganda and his allegations are bulls.

    Look at the way his lame apparatus is. area of contact for a foam filter and a surface filtersare very very different and he just took the advantage of that lame side of the truth.I would say LoL.
    He should have taken some user reviews from his relatives too, the way they do in movie reviews with selected audiance coming out of cinema hall shouting "super hit""blockbuster"

    If he had shown it with an engine running for at least 24 hours it could make a sense..it shouldn't be that expensive for them would it be ?

    atleast a sample filter box would have saved a life here !!!..but his lame apparatus to scare some U-toobe students !!!

    By the logic of u-tube , does the below video means that the power of engine would Increase 10 times if one replaces to KN filter ?check out his ball !! (wink)

    Last edited: May 18, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  5. drifter

    drifter Regolare

    Messages:
    310
    London/Mumbai
    Although it is a commercial video it does show what is important when it comes to filter quality testing. All the test procedures are specified by strict European industrial norm testing. People who aren't familiar with these tests should watch the clip several times to understand the complexity and reasons for this test set-up, which is a bit more than just a little box with 2fans and a cloth.

    Air Filter and Air Intake Testing - YouTube
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  6. Peter Sir,

    It is hard to agree that Engine oil (be it the crank case breather) reaches MAF sensor,how can it go against the air that is pushing in the opposite direction towards Intercooler?
    It's not just the engines aspiration but also turbo's blower is force inducing air in the direction opposite to MAF , I have seen oil upto the blower not before that.
    I am not making claim based on reading some website article but my fiend owns a multibrand garage,due to my interest I have seen quite a few cars , where inter cooler is damaged due to accidents even upto the extent of replacing the turbo it self.
    There may be bit of engine oil inside the Inter-cooler too not at MAF,that too it's the crankcase breather oil(quantity is quite less). i am sorry with all the respect to your sir I choose disagree with you on your post about oil being found on MAF, theoretically and practically not possible.
    -Sat
  7. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    SAT,

    it's not impossible. The blowby gases are routed to the air intake by the PCV valve or simply without it.

    As blowby gases do contain traces of oil, so it's not impossible that some of it can find it's way to the MAF. On older , worn out engines, this problem will be much more severe.

    Cheers.

    P.S. Guys, I see this thread is going nowhere. I shall feel compelled to close it unless the discussions remain civil.
  8. drifter

    drifter Regolare

    Messages:
    310
    London/Mumbai
    Turbo Diesel engines do not have a throttle body.As soon as you come off throttle or switch the engine off you will have aback draft. Turbos have a dump valve for a reason. Your friend might have a multi brand garage. I have been working with manufacturers on problems had my own garages and work with many people in the trade. I have to investigate plenty of cars in order to get the problems solved that other people complaining about.

    My question still stands unanswered: Where is the proof, where are the engines that got damaged or the MAFs that got damaged due to cotton gauze filters?

    Gurjinder,

    I disagree, that the thread is going nowhere. It is exactly going where I predicted from the very outset. There is a lot of talk about things many don't even understand. But they want to be experts on a view things they saw or have been told.

    And some 35 posts later still no answer. Instead of closing the thread you should ask the ones coming up with this and that just because they think and try to apply logic in ideas they design in their minds to actually bring in facts.

    Every single AIR that left my company was fitted with cotton gauze filter elements. My AIRs have covered many crores of km. And after all these years I have had not a single report that any of my AIRs were damaging the engine or the MAF. All my AIRs are solely supplied by means of the net till date. Therefore it would be easy to find any complaint.

    Now again: Bring proof that the 'poor filtration' and the oil in the cotton gauze filter does damage respectively. Till the proof is presented this thread should stay open.
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  9. jayadev

    jayadev Esperto

    Messages:
    1,057
    Kannur, India
    Kannur
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    I agree with that. the black oil is almost at throat of filterbox , I can attach the pics if required of same car.
    I would have done it before but it is bit difficult to remove the lid without disconnecting the hose.

    @Gurjinder, I wonder where we went haywire ,why such a threat ?
    or is it another "teamhorsepower" acting here ? -if so then it would be shameful!
  10. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    Peter,

    You started this thread , on TFI , as a rant against BITOG's test of some air filters. Whom do you expect proof from? That the guys at BITOG will come here and give proof?

    Come on Peter.

    BITOG have a forum of their own. You are not satisfied with the results of THEIR test, OK - I would advise you to start a topic on BITOG disputing the validity of their "tests".

    You wouldn't go to the Scotland Yard demanding proof of a burglary in Swaziland. Would you?

    Cheers.
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