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Performance filters are dangerous for the engine!!!

Discussion in 'Hangout' started by drifter, May 8, 2012.

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  1. jayadev

    jayadev Esperto

    Messages:
    1,057
    Kannur, India
    Kannur
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP

    Hold on Please, My Bike, Bajaj Avenger 220 has a foam filter by stock,nothing but 1/2" yellow foam, 5" square fixed on a metal grill one can see through it partially). When I opened filter box me and my brother had our eyes popped out .my brother had some humour sense and said: "ahh,great Bajaj ,we can buy this from fancy store for Rs.2 and cut it out with scissors ,sure VFM"
    Did the manufacturer err ? I can post a pic if required.Hope it is not cars only which demands special treatments .
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  2. Bajaj may not be using UNI foams.

    If you look at the air filter's used by mihindra in Xylo Scorpio, will be suprised to foam filters used by OEM.
  3. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    Jayadev, we can't equate a piece of foam used to filter air with a proper two-stage foam filter like the UNI. ;)

    Peter,

    I think you have misconstrued Jayadev's post completely where he showed pics of his car's filter. It actually portrayed what a great job the filter was doing at stopping the dust, not letting it pass. It is a normal paper filter and is stopping tons of dust. Just look at the amount of dust.

    And, i'm very sure your Seicento's engine would've been equally happy for a lakh km's or so if you would've just wrapped a piece of fine cloth around the intake and without using any filter. We cannot equate conditions in Europe to conditions in India - in general. You know it better than anyone.

    I'm not saying all OEM filters are good. OEM's are built to a price and have to satisfy a lot of economic criteria, performance and filteration not being the primary criteria.

    And Peter, we cannot just show by pics what a good/bad job the filter is doing. Long terms tests will have to be done to find out the amount of dust going in and what effect it had on the internals. That's a mighty job.

    But, in the end - whatever floats your boat. You're running a business here, and it's good to see you back your product fully.

    We all have our opinions.

    Cheers.
  4. sanjay_mugur

    sanjay_mugur Timido

    Messages:
    23
    Bangalore
    i swear by paper filter, rest are a bit of joke, air flow may be less in air filter but i have no doubts in its filtering capacity...

    swear will never touch any other type of filters....
    1 person likes this.
  5. jayadev

    jayadev Esperto

    Messages:
    1,057
    Kannur, India
    Kannur
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    If you swear the earth you see around is flat then we have no option but to believe you because we are not enough rich to go into space and have a better look ,neither have enough resources to go around the earth and see if we come to same point or not.if tomorrow you change your opinion that earth is round we have to believe that too,as we are short of options.

    I dont think they are paper filter, let us have a closer look .
    they look like hard pressed nylon/synthetic fibre and yes they did filter well ,but nowhere proving that anything other than paper filter are useless.

    And this one has sustained around 60000km all I need is to tap it or blow some air through compressor and it is fresh as new. If it was paper filter we have used at those place I bet within 500km I will have to buy new ones as the wet oily dust wont come off as easy from paper.

    I will not say It is as clean as how my punto's filter box and piping is but they look dirty and greasy (turbo oil maybe)..I am not expert here.but the both cars are serving well as of now.
    One of the car had a blown turbo once because one who used to drive thought, he is still with 1930 diesel engine.

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    Last edited: May 17, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  6. drifter

    drifter Regolare

    Messages:
    310
    London/Mumbai
    Gurjinder, I have several cars running in India for more than a year in different areas. No negative report as yet. I am monitoring these and will continue more tests in more places.

    Regarding the dust in England you are mistaken We had many rivers drying out in the past years. They never saw water again since.Currently we have water restrictions in Britain.

    I am aware that you have many very dusty places and many suffer extreme. However we have them too. And also many people live in places in India where dust is no problem.

    When you go on the ebay India site you will see just under 1000 listings for performance air filters. If they would be that bad, how does anyone still offer them on ebay? The anti propaganda would have killed the sales.

    And what all the ones slating cotton gauze have failed to deliver is facts.

    sanjay_mugurcan only come up with a ridiculous statement. Can he prove that cotton gauze filters are a joke? I haveasked for proof. Even the lectures for that the cotton gauze filters are not able to filter smaller than 5 micron don't give any clue, whether there was damage done.

    The point is that it was claimed by people who are arm chair warriors that cotton gauze filters are detrimental for engines and MAFs.

    I have no proof they are as otherwise I would not use them as part of my AIRs.

    To all the ones waffling about internet wisdom rather than bringing on the facts: WHERE ARE THE FACTS?

    Stick to what the topic was about.

    You are entitled to use whatever filter you like.

    However it is a joke to call something a joke when you are on of the least people in the position to make a statement about it.
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  7. jayadev

    jayadev Esperto

    Messages:
    1,057
    Kannur, India
    Kannur
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    When people start to swear on Paper filters we should doubt manufacturer who provides other alternatives -don't we need to ?


    End of the day One cannot take out maximum juice out of an engine just by a using Paper(only) filters that is the point. If I need bit of extra fuel efficiency,or little bit of extra push, how do I get it ,if everybody around start singing soliloquy that it is bad bad bad!!!:uh


    As far as I have investigated it is not dust alone which cause serious abrasiveness in engine but un-burnt hydrocarbon, hope you have noted old age people use coal,wood coke for copper or brass vessel and rub it out shiny,carbon is one among serious abrasive and unburnt carbon with metal residue and sulpher content is poison to engine.

    Paper filter have tiniest pores which tend to get blocked very quickly in the event of moisture and dust, leaving engine suffocated and producing more soot at higher revvs you can do a diy experiment by touching the dust particles on your car's intake exhaust against soot on exhaust tip,you will realize which is more adhesive and stubborn . If you are not in habbit of cleaning paper filters frequently (<1000km) then I believe it is more detrimental than using free flow ones.

    Disclaimer: I am no expert yet.

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    1 person likes this.
  8. theblack

    theblack Esperto

    Messages:
    2,188
    Bangalore
    Ebay is not any good platform to judge if any merchandize is good or bad ( be it air filters or paper pins).
    I bought a 500Rs foot pump and in a matter of 3 weeks it had a pressure leak, so does that mean all foot pumps are useless, the answer is NO.
    So does that mean the number of people buying foot pumps from Ebay will reduce, NO!
    One sells anything and everything on Ebay ,that's no quality measurement.

    I've followed this discussion from the beginning wanting to comment every time (but held back).
    Now here is my 2 cents.
    AFAIK the bigger the pore the more air enters, the more dust there is in the air, the more dust enters the engine.
    This is simple physics and to prove my point about the regular gauze filters (k&N, sold as performance at every auto shop) here is the link
    Automotive Air Filter Test - YouTube

    Listen to what the guy has to say about gauze filters and everyone will know.
  9. FastLove

    FastLove Superiore

    Messages:
    606
    Mumbai
    Linea 1.4
    I still have no clue what the discussion here is all about. There are different options of Filter available in the market to choose from and each can opt for what suits them.

    As far as the Video link its really not wise to present a TV Commercial of TRUE FLOW or whatever the brand selling their product like they sell Fairness Cream and Weight Loss Herbal Tea in India showing you LIVE demos ::D

    Please choose what suits you .

    You chose a car that 95% of your fellow Indians would advice you not to buy. Right?!!!

    So amongst those 5% of "BRAVE" FIAT owners, there are 95% who will not agree of AIR Filter Upgrade . Thats absolutely fine :p
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
    2 people like this.
  10. theblack

    theblack Esperto

    Messages:
    2,188
    Bangalore
    Yes its a TV commercial but a test nonetheless ,right?
    I mean I'm not asking people to view the commercial and say that Foam is best, what I'm trying to say is that each filter has its drawbacks and its pointed out well in that test.
    Now if you argue that there are other hidden things in that commercial then i rest my case.
    I only wanted to show a source of info, like all the others have done here(be it a web report or photos)
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