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Next Generation Fiat Linea to Launch in 2017

Discussion in 'Fiat Global News' started by cassini, Nov 12, 2014.

  1. avi_loveindia

    avi_loveindia Amatore

    Messages:
    108
    FiatLand
    Grande Punto 1.2
    I too think current state of Siena will (if ever come here as Linea replacement ,, that will bring more damage to Fiat than benefit ),,,, see at current breeds of cars with which it (Linea ) is compiting. Ciaz, Vento,Fiesto ,Verna they are being upgraded frequently with new features and are better designed than Siena in anyway and not forget that they have here user base grip . It will be a very, very wrong decision to bring Siena here as Linea replacement here
    I think in current scenario ,, Fiat doesn't need a Car to compete them but to Win them backed by strong ASS values
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,447
    delhi ncr
    @Sumit

    The all-new Punto and its sedan cousin the all-new grand Sienna are under development in Brazil, on a much-lightened version of the excellent Palio platform. They will surely be, like the current Linea and Punto, best-in-class in several/most ways, including value and styling (going by Fiat's design record in India.)

    But will enough folks buy them, or even consider doing so, they don't do so currently: perhaps by 2017, then?

    The one that excites me, and one or two other folks I know, is the 'New Avventura'/b-suv promised for end 2016, with t-jet and 1.5 mjd, IF it's a bit bigger than the current Avventura (maybe Duster-sized) which last is, otherwise, just the best-est, most charismatic thing, and the best value, on 4 wheels currently in the sub-D segment! Hope they have word/show the concept of it at the AutoExpo in feb.

    Patience till then is our Fiat-fan fate? Yup, 'aur kar bhi kya sakte hain?!'.;)
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  3. avi_loveindia

    avi_loveindia Amatore

    Messages:
    108
    FiatLand
    Grande Punto 1.2
    OT ,, but Any chance of coming this timeless Italian beauty (even Suzuki bringing YRA premium hatch)
    Fiat-bravo.jpg
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,447
    delhi ncr
    Maruti Suzuki has guaranteed economies of scale, and in any case 'economises' here there and everywhere on build, material, engineering and component quality.

    A big, 'premium'-type hatch from Fiat (new Bravo) or Renault (eg Clio) or VW/Skoda (Golf) would, absent these prerequisites, be impossible for them to price anywhere near competitively. And then there is the sub-4m rule.

    That, you see, is the tragedy in our automotive baazar: the price-value calculus here forbids such cars.

    But if one re-does such cars into a Crossover/pseudo-SUV form (and function?): then, as Renault has shown with the Duster, it becomes possible costing/pricing/sales-wise, perhaps.

    Hence the choice of the current Avventura, and the plan for a newAvventura late next year. Apparently, VW has a similar product planned for 2018, as well. But then so do Maruti, Honda, Tata, Nissan and Hyundai! :wideyed::p
  5. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    The problem with us (as Fiat lovers) is that we are getting our highs on the mere news about all new Avventura or the much vaunted 1.5/1.6 MJD and B-SUV etc. But purely going by past evidence (of which there is ample), it is a huge question as to whether Fiat India will ever be part of these upcoming scripts. Thats the difference between Fiat and the rest of the OEMS. Those OEMs are targetting India in a concrete manner, with specific and/or derived models, and their effort is visible, with all those Test mules scrambling all over the country.

    Whereas the only significant test mule that Fiat ran recently for 6-8 months turned out to be a juiced up Punto minus the juiced up powerplant. (No offence to Avventu-rites, its a gorgeous one, but surely not a vastly different product to what Fiat already has).
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,447
    delhi ncr
    @acechip

    No test mule of a new car/model/engine sighted for Nissan, Skoda or indeed VW (meaningfully 'new', if the Avventura isn't, then neither is the sub-4m Vento), nor Chevy (not counting a couple of ckd/cbu ones). It's no wonder why: they all lose/have already lost big money in the Indian market, since every one of the several attempts from these firms has failed sales-wise, let alone profits-wise, over the last 2-3 years. And that will not change either, forseeably.

    Until 2018, perhaps? When VW might finally have a new car (all they've done, to little sales avail, is launch an engine, and a gearbox, already available on the same or more expensive models, which have sold even less). Skoda has (had) NO car even now in the mass market, not counting the badge-engineered Vento=Rapid, and it will remain that way for another 1 and a 1/2 or 2 years. etc.

    Only Ford and Tata fit your thesis, then, about the exceptional slowness/laziness/timidity/etc of Fiat as against others. They both are sitting on thousands of crores of accumulated losses, with many more years before profits show up, if then (not counting exports).

    Fiat's not exceptional: it is just showing all the COMMON signs of a market struggler in a market that has 3 firms cornering 70% + of sales. An oligopolistic-competition market, in which the small guys suffer endlessly, financially, unless they're very careful. Fiat/FCA are careful, or if you prefer cautious/deliberate: which is why they're one of only four profitable firms in India (not counting exports), the others being Maruti, Hyundai and Mahindra.

    If anything, they're too optimistic about the mass market, which may well be impossible to even dent by-now. They should perhaps leave the optimism to Nissan-as-Datsun (go, go+, rediGo...), and focus more on exports like the other strugglers/stragglers (VW, Ford, Renault, Nissan) already do.

    I suspect that's exactly how they'll proceed from hereon, new vehicle-wise: India as base more for r&d, low cost labour including engineers and risk-free export profits, to add to the engine- and amt-sharing ones, than for retail sales volumes. If the latter happen, hallelujah, of course! But NO banking on them.

    That's the lesson to be learnt from Ford (Ecosport), Renault (Duster), Nissan (Sunny and Micra) and VW (Vento). Else, there is a lot of money waiting to be lost trying to outgun Maruti, Hyundai, Honda and soon Toyota (the east asian 'Gang of Four'). As shown by these very export-dependent firms' balance-sheets.
  7. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    MSIL, Hyundai, Renault and Mahindra have been running test mules of cars that will be imminent launches. If I had a vision for establishing a brand/presence, I would benchmark my strategy against the leaders rather than the 'laggards' , knowing that I am not a Ferrari or a R-R or some such niche player. Of course, one can have business and profits without ever having stated vision /mission, but then you are just laying bricks without a foundation.
    prabhjot likes this.
  8. jumu

    jumu Superiore

    Messages:
    969
    Chennai
    Every morning I see a Mahindra test mule. Funny shape, sloped roundish at the rear, not able to see through the mask but it has roof rails and its not very long. Must be a counter to renegade.

    Abdul
    prabhjot likes this.
  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,447
    delhi ncr
    @jumu

    ya, must be not a counter to a still-distant and expensive non-competition (Renegade), but a sort of 'copy' of it, as 'funda'?

    Although Mahindra is well within its rights to 'copy' Jeep, since it is one of the original global inheritors of the original small, utilitarian Jeeps.

    Indeed it could be argued that the new emerging-market-friendly smaller all-new Jeeps (Renegade and upcoming C-suv and/or rumoured cutprice Jeep below Renegade) are in some sense an emulation of Mahindra's very peculiarly successful positioning as an affordable, yet specialist and butch, SUV-maker.

    Jeep, then, is doing the same, with great success so far, on a global scale. And pushing upwards into really high segments too (to compete against Range Rover, for eg) with 2 announced ultra-large and luxurious SUV-s above the Grand Cherokee (for 2018...)

    Safe to say it will have the distinctive M&M overdone/ugly yet rather popular touch? It will face vastly greater competition than any other Mahindra vehicle/'suv' so far, though.

    @acechip

    more like'.....a foundation without too many bricks'!:p

    Foundation: 1.3, 1.5 (?) and 2.0 litre diesel engine supplies to Maruti and/or Tata, a bunch of other stuff to Tata for their current and upcoming vehicles, t-jet engine (and other component?) exports to China, amt gearbox systems too....to which in a year and a half will start getting added exports (one small new Jeep and/or one all new small Fiat Cuv) with presumably more of the same further down. Local Jeep sales, localized, cbu and ckd, in 'elite' market segments.

    Revenue and profits-by-proxy, via Maruti (esp) and Tata. + Exports. Possible/likely strategic tie-up with Suzuki.

    Bricks: Only, merely all-new replacements for the 3 current great but unsuccessful cars (hatch+sedan+crossover).

    If one trusts that they're sticking to the announced product-plan till 2018, that is.
    acechip likes this.
  10. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    Perhaps you are right. But that still sounds like circa 2018, Fiat India is major component maker and occasional car maker. Which does nothing to improve its brand presence from a car buyer perspective. And surely, Jeep needs to have a separate branding presence, not hyphenated with Fiat. Fiat should do exactly what MSIL shouldnt, ie dissociating the Maruti tag from "high end" vehicles. Perhaps they got carried away by the grand success of the Kizashi and the Vitara :yuck:. Seriously, who bothers about "Suzuki" cars in India ? They have zero aspirational value. Indian car buyers may be biased, but they are not fools.
    Anyway, as far as I am concerned, my SUV plans have been done and dusted with:happy:.

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