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Need help! Current ice setup with stock hu not giving quality!

Discussion in 'In Car Entertainment' started by mohitl, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    From what I have come to understand speakers in the rear tray do not serve any acoustic purpose.
    one of those reasons are, no 6X9 or oval speaker is made to perform in IB conditions, therefore limiting there performance and throwing the acoustic placement frame out of the window. Another reason being the placement of the tweeter and midbass is such that differentiation in high's/mids/lows is hard to come by or barely there. Another issue is the power handling the oval can take slightly more power and therefore one needs to make an adjustment with the FADER option to make the sound balanced between the front and the rear stage and here comes the problem the person sitting at the rear seat only gets to hear the rears and not the front comps as the ovals are place right next to his ear level. So overall if you look at it the parcel tray is amongst the least acoustically pleasant places for fitting the speakers not matter if its a hatchback/saloon.

    Ideally the most acoustic positioning of speakers is in the doors. Since they can be made to be used as enclosures for the speakers giving them a environment in which the speakers are made to perform.
    So even if you want to derive the best output with least input one can simply opt for comps at the front and co-ax's at the rear with the OEM hu (delphi/blaupunkt), keeping in mind the fact that the comps are not power hungry.

    As for the vibrations u faced in the door that could be cause of either the speaker not being mounted properly, MDF rings not being used, MDF rings if used are thinner than the required width, screws not properly fitted, the way damping is done, clips in the door pads not locked in properly. Alot of these could contribute to the vibrations.
    So thinking that these stock locations aren't acoustic just because of some incomplete/improper fitting is not just.

    Now about what the blaupunkt guy had told you, punto and linea's are considered pretty decent cars for ICEing, owing to the fact the size of the door and the metal used, it forms a very good and efficient enclosure. The only drawback as it seems to me and a few others is the stock location of the tweeter, its a little low for some peoples taste. Also a plus point in fiat's is it packed so tight that there is very less room for air to escape making the car a very efficient enclosure and with additional damping things keep getting sweeter.
  2. winimation

    winimation Amatore

    Messages:
    100
    Mumbai
    @Phew
    By placing speakers in parcel tray, i did not mean that they are acoustically best. I meant it is better as compared to door location in terms of vibration & more bass. I agree that rear speakers is not the right place for spkeakers as it is very close to the person's ear level who is sitting in the rear seat + the loss of high frequencies (treble) since treble is directional. My ideal choice of speaker placement would be the doors with tweeters in the front dashboard.

    In Linea, I've used the same set-up as you have suggested. i.e Components in the front with tweeters in the front & co-axials in the rear. I notice that the overall bass is lesser as compared to installing just ovals in the rear. The installer has also used wooden spacer rings. I'm skeptical if the noise/vibration can be completely eliminated in the doors, but if anyone has such a set-up with alomst zero vibrations in Linea/Punto in the doors at high volumes, please enlighten me.

    I've installed my speakers from AutoSonics in Bandra. The guys with whom Blaupunkt has a formed a subsidiary in India. The feedback that vibrations cannot be eliminated in Linea was his feedback. BTW Linea is very well built but ever since I've taken the delivery I noticed few rattlings from the doors even before the speaker installation.

    Possibly, I need to give another attempt if the sound can be made completely distortion free.
  3. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Firstly how do you define high volumes ?
    If there is bass there is some amount of vibration thats gonna be around.
    By vibrations you mean the doors are rattling or are the speakers making noise ?
    If the doors are rattling then either damping is not done properly or the fitting is incorrect.
    if there is noise from the speaker then probably they are clipping and hence distorting and if the noise is from the door pads/door then again look into the damping or the installation.
    Also are the EQ setting like bass/treble at 0 ?
    Also alot depends on the quality of the recording the music you listen to is having.
    Speakers will distort at anything above the nominal power they are made to run at, in most cases speakers start to clip at 80% of the HU's volume, so playing beyond that volume will make them clip and then complaining about them distorting is only a waste of time as that is not the range they are meant to perform in.

    I would have given you an audition of my setup itself had I not removed it, but if you do want an audition then come down to delhi and I can gladly help you audition setups that not only go high on volumes but sound as clear as crystal without any distortion.
    As for the vibration part there is no such setup in this world where there is no vibration in the car/door pads, boot lid, roof, seats etc. etc.

    Yes the bass is less in co-ax's due to the lower power rating as compared to the ovals and also to the fact that there application is different to that of an oval speaker.
  4. winimation

    winimation Amatore

    Messages:
    100
    Mumbai
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  5. dj.nish

    dj.nish Superiore

    Messages:
    543
    Mumbai
    Your installer is probably misguiding you.

    Fiat cars are considered very efficient to ICE simply because it's a well packed car. Installing speakers in the door is anyday preferred over parcel tray, since the latter is prone to rattles over extended periods of use.
    Vibrations can be reduced by damping the doors and is a factor of sheet metal used in construction. Check out any Maruti car (esp. Swift). At any volume, you will feel a lot of rattling and distortion in sound. That is certainly not the case with Fiat cars.

    First of all, which speakers are you using? Bass is a function of speakers or subwoofer (depending on what you have used). Also, it depends a lot on how much clean power are you feeding your speakers. An under-powered sub will obviously not put out good bass.

    Secondly, you are welcome to audition my setup. I have damped all four doors and I don't feel any vibrations/rattling at any volume.

    If you feel vibrations in an un-damped Fiat car, I really urge you to audition an un-damped Swift/Getz. You'll realize what I'm saying. They are like tin cans.

    Are you using the stock HU? If yes, you can pretty much forget decent bass from ANY kind of speakers.

    Your source needs to be good to begin with. Next comes amplification. And as regards bass, a sub is the only solution. No comps/coax speakers can match upto it in reproducing bass.

    OT - does Chandan still does installs at Autosonic?
  6. winimation

    winimation Amatore

    Messages:
    100
    Mumbai
    I'm using Blaupunkt component Speakers

    Where do you stay in Mumbai. PM me your contact details. Let's meet up on the weekend. If with damping the vibrations can be eliminated without vibrations then I will get it done. Frankly Speaking, I'm not sure if there are rattles irrrespective of speakers vibrations in which case, I think damping would not help. I had notice some rattles before speaker set-up & had taken it to OMSAI. They did something on the left door but I was not happy with it.


    I'm not saying that FIAT makes bad car. FIAT is miles away from Swift/Getz. You can read my review on Punto in my signature. I just want a clean sound in my set-up with the least investment. I'm getting a much better sound in a similar set-up in Punto (have just spent Rs 5k on ICE for rear oval speakers)



    Yes. I'm using stock HU in both Punto & Linea. The quality in Punto has nothing to complain about but in Linea something is missing. I think it is also because of the fact that my Punto has a Blaupunkt HU whereas Linea has Delphi HU. in Linea, I cannot used custom EQ along with Bass/ Treble settings which I can do in Punto which is also why the source is much cleaner in Punto as compared to Linea

    The bass I'm getting from Blaupunkt THX 693 oval speakers in Punto is enough. Even if I manage to get the same bass in Linea without vibrations. I'll be more than happy.

    Note, in terms of the volume 12-15 is the max volume level that I can afford to listen to in Punto / Linea. So it's not a case I'm listening at more than 80% of HU/speaker capacity that vibrations cannot be avoided
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
  7. Hi, I stay in Powai you can call me on 9820880334 if you're ever this side, I'll be happy to give you a demo. Also, let me know where do you stay. Cheers.

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