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My Punto had a brain surgery, she's come out a much smarter beauty now

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by theblack, May 7, 2012.

  1. theblack

    theblack Esperto

    Messages:
    2,188
    Bangalore
    This is quite debatable because the mindset of people is such that any component goes bust after a remap we generally blame it on the remap without knowing the state of the component before hand..
    It happens everywhere.
    Warranty is something every brand gives , I agree.. but at what cost..
    You have to fight you're way through everything here and at the end lose out because the insurance guys and the dealers are not ready to back you up..

    secondly soley on the topic of warranty...
    Many of us here have replaced link rods as early as 2000kms..
    "Even before the 1st service"... so if there was that "Extensive" testing that you said begin done religiously on all products its hard to imagine how so many can have flaws" ??? Isnt it?
    You can't even claim these components were from the same batch because models from '09 ,'10 all have reported this issue so many times...

    And when you say that a remap would be the reason for failures that would be quite a bold statement because FIAT themselves are churning out crap that they can't deal with. Its only the fact of passing the blame on someone else that FIAT or any other brand plays ....

    I dont believe this phrase at all.. Because humanely no one can claim there has been an extensive testing done on any component..
    FIAT does it to its best abilities and you're next door ECU remapping guy does it to his best knowledge..
    This again bring me back to the link rod statement I've made.
    We are just passing the blame trying to rub off as many issues as we can away from us that's all.

    I'm not saying that a remap will not ruin the machine but i just dont like all the unnecessary sarcasm that revolves around remaps and our general mentality to say NO to things even before we take a look at it..
    I've been a part of this brand wagon myself that's why i'm being so descriptive about my concerns.
    I researched for nearly 1 year to figure out if i should get my ECU remapped and read a lot of things good and bad and i didn't have any clear picture even after that..
    But i just wanted to take this plunge and made an educated guess that's all..

    All i'm trying to bring out via this post is to tell everyone here willing to do something different with their cars that they can go ahead and do it than to waste time in simply read tons of articles ...
    Read enough to boost you're confidence and accept the cons...

    Enjoy the FIAT :)
    1 person likes this.
  2. Just adding Clutch slave cylinders to the list.
  3. amitp

    amitp Amatore

    Messages:
    63
    Pune, Maharashtra
    Hi,

    Whether it is Fiat or any other OEM, if there is no after market mod, the owner has a chance to claim warranty. As I have mentioned a tune up will be specific to an individual whereas an OEM considers way too many factors before coming out with a vehicle. An after market mod will surely enhance the utility for that individual. But no one knows at what costs as the tuner will at the most cover for the parts he will change. Both the link rod and the clutch slave cylinder were taken care of by the OEM.

    This discussion is taking an ugly turn towards becoming an argument than being a discussion where people would get sincere information. Kindly elaborate as to who would be responsible if anything goes wrong. You have taken the plunge with enough of knowledge but does most of that knowledge reflect in your thread? I am not against after market modifications and have nothing personal against either of you, but would like people to know the flip side of it too.

    There are many things which if kept clean will have a noticeable effect on the vehicle. Italia Linea can give more details of cleaning from intake to EGR. Also a pristine condition vehicle with clean breathing may give a remapped car a run for its money in real time as well as on a hub dyno. In your case you have mentioned that you wanted the vehicle to have power in the lower rpm bands and also got the same. A spirited driver will still match that power in higher rpms and keep the warranty on the car.

    Kindly try to understand that all I wish to say here is that a person should really evaluate if there is a need for an after market mod which voids warranty and know the pros as well as cons of the same. Taking a plunge on the basis of an educated guess is not for everybody. Majority people would buy a used car and take the plunge or wait for the warranty to run out and then take the plunge. Otherwise vehicles of the masses would be after market modded as against a handful of people which is the current scenario.

    Cheers!!!

    Amit
  4. Ganges

    Ganges Esperto

    Messages:
    3,123
    Driver Seat _/
    :
    Grande Punto 1.3
    So simple,i remeber when you were about to do remap you had plenty of doubts and done long study :) isnt it ?

    Yes,there is difference in the 90Hp and 75Hp mechatronically ;) i came to know this when one of my friend was working with FIAT ranjangaon ,when i asked him about my punto upgrade i.e. 75 hp to 90 hp.he suggested to me to wait for few years and buy new 90Hp.

    Coming to warranty,yes it voids warranty.
    Also i have read in some post that by scanning the reprogrammed ECU as well, one cant read the software change,hence warranty wise you are safer.

    ECU remap is one's choice and why to go for just ECU remap, the above discussion will add value for the guy like you,me or anyother who opt's for ECU remap.from the above discussion i would say as "Why to opt for ECU Remap, rather buying 90Hp" ;) ?

    P.S:- FIAT sales specs add more value when one reads VGT and FGT.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  5. Nimish antony

    Nimish antony Regolare

    Messages:
    393
    Kochi
    Well Black let me congratulate you for remapping your beauty. Earlier when i posted an article on my remap experience i had similar issues with people going hay ware and off topic. The ultimate thing is that after the remap is the owner satisfied. The majority of the remapped customers have a big YES.. People come up with different questions on cooling, heating, testing..... gosh. Punto is a great car and an increase in 10-15 Hp on the stock wont be of harm to the engine as long as you change your oil and filters on time. The rest is is luck. If you get a bad shot then its not the map to blame.

    Take care of you car well and it will take care of you. Remapped or not.
  6. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    There are differences between components of 75bhp engine and 90bhp engine.
    The shafts on 90hp engine are made of different - better material to withstand more torque. Injectors are same. Pistons are same, combustion chamber is same.

    Ecu mapping is obviously different. Added parts are vacuum actuator, VGT turbo and many more. There is a whole list of parts which i am not able to find right now.

    I had maintained it in excel. Will fish it out and publish here.


    Well - regarding the debate, " To remap or not to remap" is totally an individual choice. A person going for aftermarket mods will not bother about warranty. If anything goes wrong obviously its his/his tuners responsibility.

    Again the hunger for more and more power is never ending. An individual should decide how far he has to go considering the limitations of his own car and his driving ability.

    I think in this thread we should better discuss what Siddharth did , how its working and how we all can benefit from bits and bytes of this remapped punto.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
    2 people like this.
  7. theblack

    theblack Esperto

    Messages:
    2,188
    Bangalore
    This is not taking an ugly turn sir.. I'm neither fighting for my claims nor am I trying to say REMAP is 100% safe. Dont get the wrong idea.
    I've also mentioned about the flip sides right? , If you read my post carefully you will know that I"ve mentioned about some components getting damaged earlier than in stock mode :)

    Ganges, You're memory is very good buddy.. :)
    Yes I openly accept that I did this research for longer than required , I've even accepted that in the post .
    I"m not saying that no one should ask questions about remaps or TDs .. All I'm saying is i wasted at least 5-6 months (if not a year) to gain knowledge about these remaps..
    But honestly speaking when i saw my ECU being opened and various parameters being tuned i was left clueless, that's when i realised that perhaps my time was not worth in figuring out what can happen with a remap.. I should have just stopped reading about it and started searching for a guy who can do it.
    So this is the info i'm trying to put across.. nothing else.

    in the end like Nimish put it.. its best understood by the individual about his needs and i think we can only provide inputs to that..
    So.. My only idea after having driven about 2000km since the remap is that , I can safely say there is nothing too drastic that will happen that our MJDs cannot handle (unless its tuned in a nasty way).
    So just follow all the success stories about remaps and take the decision believing in ones luck .. :)

    All the best :)
  8. pemmasg

    pemmasg Regolare

    Messages:
    359
    Chennai
    Thanks a lot for clarifying.

    -Gopi
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  9. amitp

    amitp Amatore

    Messages:
    63
    Pune, Maharashtra
    Here is an OT bit for some fun. Warning: Some info is real and some hypothetical. Prices mentioned are OTR. Kindly enjoy the read.
    Mods may kindly edit / delete / relocate this post if they feel so but its intent is to lighten up a bit of seriousness from a few last posts.

    Couple of months back I was going to buy a used 90 for 6.5 L and make changes as per my taste. But decided against it, as was a bit skeptical of not having warranty and stressing the machine since the changes would be serious and absolutely not aesthetic. The plan was passed after a discussion with friends. (Three chaps who are senior service advisors at different brands at dealer level). The price of the new one was 7.80 L then.

    Decided to go with some aesthetics (of which I made a list) and buy a new 90 (just for the sake of the warranty). Fiat launched the 90 LE and the standard no longer retails. No discounts and the price quoted is 8.5 L. The latest news comes that govt is mulling over blowing the prices of diesel cars sky high. Now I wonder whether a KTM 200 makes sense. Suddenly the Palio 1.6 is also very lucrative. A Palio and mind blowing mods will still come at half the price. I will have a few lakhs saved to fill petrol and drive like a maniac without bothering that crazy changes will make the car drink a litre for every 6kms. With most stuff under the skin being new and upgraded it would have warranty from the tuner for those components while being a capable machine to play with really expensive cars.

    I keep fighting my family against an I20 asta diesel day in day out with the argument that the standard 90 will retail and a discount will really make it a great deal. They just see the list of bells and whistles of the Hyundai at the same price. I am buying it for myself with my own money but the family vote cannot be disregarded. We have a small family car and I have been wanting to move from a bike to a great car or a much better bike without selling any other vehicle.

    Looking back I just laugh at the volatility of the past two months or more. Hope this small write up puts a smile on your face and that I get a 90 for a price close to 8 L or less.

    @theblack - Using sir makes me feel like an old person (which I absolutely am not) or like a highly knowledgeable person (which also I am not). Feel free to use friend, buddy, dude, mate etc. BTW my id is also okay. I did read your post and read it very carefully. Just felt that there could be a lot more for people to know. Do add updates and as much details as you can. Looking forward to learning a few things from your experience and research before, during and after the remap.


    Cheers !!!

    Amit
  10. theblack

    theblack Esperto

    Messages:
    2,188
    Bangalore
    7000kms update

    So guys After the remap I've done nearly 7000kms and my odo currently stands at ~35000kms. I just wanted to give a brief update on my opinions about the remap and what it has done to my car.

    Firstly soon after the car was remapped i had Mobil Delvac 1 poured into the oil tanks as there was going to be added stress on the engines and other components.

    Advantages / good feelings about the car::
    1.) From the day in '09 since i bought my beauty I've always found that the engine noise was a bit on the higher side compared to the other puntos in the '11 and '12 era, After the remap my car has become Super smooth
    So smooth that my friends often confuse it to being a petrol but i tell them its a diesel with 'Pride'.

    2.) The mileage has gone up in bangalore traffic significantly here are some figures.
    a.) In normal city driving with adequate use of AC i get at least 15.5 to 16kmpl (earlier i never got more than 13.5)
    b.) On a recent highway drive to mysore i got 24kmpl with 90% AC, i drove south of 100kmph ( I never got more than 18.5 earlier)
    c.) On my Kanyakumari trip I got an avg of 15.5kmpl , I was constantly doing 150 or above.
    Bottom line: : The mileage increase has been TERRIFIC and i'm extremely pleased.

    Power/ Acceleration
    a.) I've never got a dyno done as i don't believe in it for normal cars, but what i can tell you from experience is that torque has gone up significantly and now its more of a horse ready to pounce at the drop of the clutch.(Not that the stock was less, but now its even better than stock).
    b.) I've kept cars like the Laura, Fortuner CRV, Innova at bay in a race to 100kmph

    Problems if any?
    Till date I've not had any issues with any components.. The drive is just FANTASTIC and there is no problems with the clutch even after 35000kms. The feel of the clutch is as good as it was before the remap.

    Negativities
    Now i feel i need more power, but sanity says I should hold back so ,I"m channeling my thoughts elsewhere to prevent myself from picking up the phone and calling 'Siddharth' again for another round.
    1 person likes this.

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