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My ICE Story! (Active 1.3 Multijet) Need a Happy Ending :)

Discussion in 'In Car Entertainment' started by mindsipn, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. mindsipn

    mindsipn

    Messages:
    52
    Bangalore
    <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Hi All,

    After doing my share of research on various Audio forums I finally got my ICE installed last month. Had to wait for almost 2 months for my ICE as I wanted to get my central lock installed first(Active 1.3) which was not available :uh. My final set up is different from what I have started with and also a bit over my intended budget

    I m a total first timer when it comes to ICE and what ever knowledge i gained, is through various forum on the net. Please correct me if I did something wrong somewhere :)
    Installation has been done at Glamour Car, Koramangala. I know the owner for quite sometime and also two of my friends who got their ICE done here were satisfied with their setup. Before I start up with my detailed report I would like to thank Mr Anoop and Riaz (of Glamour Car ) for the patience they ve shown and hard work they have put in installing for this set up. I bugged both of them to the core but still they were very patient while attending to all my queries also while replacing some of the components of my setup. I would also like to thank them for letting me audition so many brands without much fuss.
    Finally my apologies to all my fellow Team- Fiatians for not clicking any pics during the installations process as I had to leave my car while the installation was progress. My BAD. But I will follow up with the pics of the final set up which I have at the moment.

    Date : 25<sup>th</sup> -June

    My Initial Set up:


    HU - Kenwood KDC 7016
    Components – Hertz –ESK 165 2 Way (Tweeters on Doors close to the mid-bass)
    Coaxials –Hertz – ECX – 165
    Amp – Rockford Fosgate Prime R 300 4 Channel Amp
    Sub –10” Polk db1040 in a Sealed box. (10” as I have been told that 10” is more thump and 12” is more boom, And I prefer Thump anyday)
    Connection amp kit
    Damping Front Two Doors (Some Swedish Brand , Don’t remember the name)

    Installing took almost 6 hours and got over at 10:30 pm in the evening.
    BAD News :Once everything was done we found CD player of the HU was not working and since it was Sunday the next day so had to wait till Monday for a replacement!! :uh

    Initial Impression : No Tuning Done at this time. I found the set up to be a bit boomy. I guess it was the RF Amp.

    Date:27<sup>th</sup> - June

    More BAD News : Mr Anoop Calls me up in the Monday afternoon and tells me that not a single piece of 7016 available in the market nor with the distributor and it will take atleast 7-10 working days to procure a new one. I called up many places too but 7016 was not available anywhere! I was very upset and there was nothing I could do.

    Date: 8<sup>th</sup> July

    Mr Anoop calls me up tells me he finally arranged one piece from the distributor, So I go there and exchange my HU finally.

    Date: 15<sup>th</sup> July

    Even after the Tuning done on my system, I somehow wasn’t totally satisfied with the SQ of my set up and the clarity was not up to my expectation . So after doing some more digging on various forums I decided to go with the following changes :

    Date: 17<sup>th</sup> -July

    • Compos : Focal Polyglass 165 VB replaced Hertz –ESK 165 2 Way
    • Amp: Focal Solid 4 replaced the Rockford Fosgate Prime R 300 4 Channel Amp
    • Changed my sealed box to ported for my Sub.(Suggested by Riaz , the installer)
    • Decided to audition some other 10” subs (Thanks to Anoop for letting my audition these) : Tried Diamond Audio 110.2 , Memphis R10S4-S8 , Hertz Energy (ES 250 – I think). All were tested with my new ported box but I somehow liked the sound of my 10 “ Polk DB when compared to all these. May be because of the tuning that was already done for this set up. So I decided to stick with My Polk DB.

    So here is my Final Set Up:

    Kenwood KDC – 7016
    Components – Focal Polyglass 165 VB (Tweeters off – axis on front pillars)
    Coaxials –Hertz Energy ECX – 165 6.5” driven by the HU (I have read somewhere that a special adapter is required to put 6.5” coaxial on rear door but I didn’t need any!!)
    Amp – Focal Solid 4
    Sub – Polk db1040 SVC (270 RMS) in a Ported Box
    Wiring -Connection Amp kit
    Damping Front Two Doors

    As a driver I m totally satisfied with the sound, Love the way the Compos (a bit bright but not harsh) and the Sub (Not boomy anymore!) sound but I can hardly hear my Coaxials . Some one who is sitting at the back is also not able to hear my coaxial speakers properly. One of my friend helped me with the TA and and I did some Fader adjustments and it’s better now but still not loud enough for my liking.

    Now I m thinking of other alternatives, may be connecting my Coaxials also to the Amp and get a Mono Amp for the Sub?? I have few doubts/questions which I would be grateful if you all can help me with :


    • Is it advisable to connect Coaxial to the Amp ?
    • If I go for an Amp which one( Mono or 2 Channel ?) and which brand should I go for to drive my 10 " SVC Polk DB (4 ohm) sub woofer? I m thinking about a budget amp which ll be efficient and wont drain the battery too much (preferably Class D ) as I don’t plan to go for capacitor.

    Honestly speaking ,I don’t want to get another Amp right now , I just wish if I could do something to get more out of my co ax speakers :uh

    Thanks in Advance!!

    Happy Puntoing Everyone!!:car


  2. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Since u do not want to add an amp, U can reduce the gains for the comps further more till u start getting the proper surround, as adding an amp for co-ax's doesn't make that big a sense. But do note that the co-ax's wont go loud enough without an amp as the HU does not churn out that much power. So eventually u will need an amp. Try placing the tweeter in the stock location and raising the imaging from there, it will help kill the brightness.

    Harmony & Choas
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2011
  3. mindsipn

    mindsipn

    Messages:
    52
    Bangalore
    Phew,

    Thanks a lot for your response. Actually I was suggested the same thing (reduce the gain of the compos) in another site where i had posted this query. You are saying that connecting the co ax to the amp doesnt make sense but at the same time you have also mentioned that they wont go loud without connecting to the Amp. So what do you suggest, If i get a mono or a 2 channel should i be driving the co ax via the Solid 4 ? If yes ( now this might sound a bit stupid :) ),Will this impact the amp health in any way? As for all 4 channel ppl always suggget to power the front stage components and may be a sub in the bridged mode. I didint find anything about driving the co axials with a 4 channel amp.

    About the Tweeters , I had my Energy Tweeters in the stock position (doors) but i thought the clarity wasnt that good , So as suggested by the installer, for my polyglass i now have them off - axis on the pillars. Initially i found them to be a bit bright especially in some cymbal happy songs, but after running them for over 2 weeks now , they sound pretty sweet to me. Clarity is crisp.

    Finally in case if i go for an Amp, which budget Amp (Mono or 2 Channel ?, Class AB or Class D?? ) should i go for to run my Polk DB 270 RMS sub?

    Thanks Again for you Help!!
    Cheers
  4. Tarun

    Tarun Amatore

    Messages:
    227
    Bhiwani, Delhi
    if you wish to get more out of my co ax speakers.. i suggest you to sell them ..
    focus on front stage only .. back seat par kisko sunaoge ?
  5. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Bro firstly sorry for the late reply.
    A
    What I ment was remove the rear speakers and align the sub and speakers in such a way that they give u the surround effect. Secondly the HU tht u r usin has a very peculiar issue, it can never be tuned at exact 80 hz, even though it show's it, it is at less than 80 hz that also is the culprit.
    Secondly don add or remove any speakers or amps....just adjust the time delay to such an extent that u get the desired results, try and move the rear speakers and sub more to the front stage and I am sure ull b satisfied.

    Thirdly if u do wanna add an amp get a kenwood mono for rs 7000 I guess and power the sub, but just remember to reduse the gains for the rear speakers.

    Also last but not the least, since ur co-ax's are placed near the foot, there cud b a possibility that there is an issue in merging with the front stage, as the imaging is not being formed properly. Just add a good pair of tweeter in tht case.

    Harmony & Choas
  6. mindsipn

    mindsipn

    Messages:
    52
    Bangalore
    Tarun Bhai,

    Thats what i initially thought. But last week i was out on a trip to Ooty with friends. While driving on the highway the ones at the back seat were shouting "Peeche Volume kam Hai.. Increase it" :). But when i did it was too loud at in the front so changed the fade setting so as that fade goes to rear but it did reduce the clarity and volume of the front Components. I dont have people sitting at the back often. But still i would love to have a proper wholesome sound no matter where one is sitting. Off late I have been thinking I should have just gone for a decent HU and two speakers in on a MDF tray instead of shelling out so much of mulla on this. :)
    Absolutely no Problem Jasveen,

    I m just glad that you are taking your time out to help me with this :) I didn't know of the issue you have mentioned about the HU. How can I find out that its not exaclty 80 Hz even if its shows its at 80 Hz? I will definitely ask my installer about this. But anyways I will do what you have suggested, will try and reduce the Gain in the Amp for the Compos. One last thing I would like to ask you here is : Will reducing the gain in the Amp effect the SQ in anyway and will mean that i will be under - utilizing my Comops / Amp ?

    And yes if a do get an amp down the line , I will make sure that I reduce gain for the co ax in my 4 Channel.

    Thanks So Much for your help!

    "I Support Anna with all my heart!"
  7. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Sounds funny but sorry again for the late reply

    yes reducing the gains will affect the clarity as you are taking away some amount of power away from the speakers.

    Also another big reason Y u don seem to get the sound out of your co-ax's is that your tweeters are mounted at a higher level therefore, there is no proper imaging being formed, you most definitely need to add good tweeters in the rear slots to get the imaging perfect, as right now your co-ax's are kicking in your footwell so the performance is further reduced.
  8. mindsipn

    mindsipn

    Messages:
    52
    Bangalore
    I didnt even realize that team fiat was back online!! Nice :) Thanks Jasveen , Ok in that case I have one small doubt , can I run the tweeters via the HU ? If yes, then I will do what you have told me. I will try and add tweeters to the rear doors and see if it improves the sound-stage. Anyways I have been thinking about getting an Alpine MRP 500 Monoblock in some time , guess then I will connect the co ax to the 4 channel too.

    Will update you once I get the tweeters on the rear doors.Thanks again for your help.

    Cheers!

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