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Medical Science - Discussion

Discussion in 'Hangout' started by RaviHegde, Mar 15, 2015.

  1. RaviHegde

    RaviHegde Regolare

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    299
    Karnataka
    14.62°N 74.85°E
    Grande Punto 1.4
    A must watch for all people who are interested in holistic health. Dr. B.M.Hegde is a well known doctor in this part of the world who says doctors are your problem. You will do better without doctors! It may sound counter intuitive, but in this lecture he says why. Please watch:

    There are several more videos of this great doctor on youtube. Search and watch when you have time. You will be far more healthy.
    Sujit508 likes this.
  2. RaviHegde

    RaviHegde Regolare

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    299
    Karnataka
    14.62°N 74.85°E
    Grande Punto 1.4
    I hope so - he himself is a cardiologist trained by Nobel Laureate Bernard Lown @ Harvard Medical School. Please don't take what he tells literally - he is saying 2 things applicable to all fields. He talks from medical field perspective because he is an expert in that field. Experts from other fields have raised this problem in their fields too. For example Dr. Vandana Shiva talks about the same problems in the field of agriculture and food. Summary is these 2 points:
    • Greed is a major problem. Dr. Hegde talks about greed in medical field. It is not limited to that field - it is found everywhere. What does a greedy farmer do? He poisons the food we eat and is poisoning the whole water table. Greedy fruit seller laces fruits with poison to make it look attractive and ripen faster. Greed prevails - even when people know that it is killing. Industries with powerful lobbies build propaganda around the greed so that people believe it is all genuine.
    • Reductionist science has failed. Not just in medical field - elsewhere too. For example GMOs. One GMO BT cotton has killed millions of farmers in our country alone. Because of GMO content it will kill more. It is suspected GMOs are responsible for major health problems Americans are facing of late. But the reductionist science is not willing to accept it. Or they don't tell it openly because the moment they tell that their cash registers will stop ringing.
    One small example of what a miserable failure reductionist science is: I have worked in biotech field for some time. In one of those meetings chief scientist of the company was demonstrating the genomes of several organisms. I remember human genome, chimpanzee and a worm were displayed. CEO of the company who was not a scientist asked the scientist what are the differences between them. Scientist told the truth as seen by the reductionist science - humans and chimpanzee are 99% similar (now scientists are saying 96% similarity), humans and worms have high degree of similarity. I remember he had told some high percentage similarity like 80% between human and worm genome. CEO could not control himself and immediately asked Dr. Scientist are you saying I am 80% worm and 99% chimpanzee? You must be crazy to say that because common sense will not find 1% similarity between them. That is the reductionist science at its best! That company worked on drug discovery too. Lot of drugs are based on these genome sequences. You can imagine what great effects those medicines based on worm or chimp genome can have on our bodies.
    asimpleson likes this.
  3. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

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    @Bala, I could not understand the beginning of the speech or what Dr. BM Hegde was trying to convey esp. with certain statements which could be highly debated by the fraternity esp. if taken out of context. Also which I think you could have found alarming too. So I decided to watch it for later before coming to any conclusions of my own; which is today evening and found that the underlying message has a lot of "food for thought" to the doctors and patients both. Even if you choose to ignore statistical inferences and historical references in the talk I could understand why, but try and sit through the whole speech and please comment if you can what are your views about a 'more holistic' approach towards the diagnosis and treatment options or methodology today which could esp. be giving immediate relief but causing more harm in the long term. I am sure you would appreciate some portion of it or the underlying thought behind it. The talk starts becoming much more clear and processable towards the end of the speech. There is a QA with one question which will clear all your doubts about the POV of this eminent personality.

    If it was something as senseless as a senseless movie I wouldn't suggest so. ;)
  4. Bala

    Bala Esperto

    Messages:
    1,070
    Villupuram
    No, I have not seen the video.
    Though doctors are not beyond scrutiny, a blanket statement that doctors are the reason for a problem is simply unacceptable. One can not generalize things and to badmouth a profession, what ever that may be is disgusting.It is ok to not recognize the sacrifice that goes into being and becoming a doctor but to call them a cause of a problem is calling the science a farce.
  5. RaviHegde

    RaviHegde Regolare

    Messages:
    299
    Karnataka
    14.62°N 74.85°E
    Grande Punto 1.4
    @asimpleson I should really appreciate your patience for sparing the time to sit through the video :)

    @Bala I agree with your sentiments. A doctor has been given the highest position in our society. That is why our scriptures say "vaidyo narayano hari" - meaning a doctor is god. But sadly today it is hard to apply that image to all doctors. We can see several examples all around - recent cases of unnecessary hysterectomy (google for "hysterectomy racket"), foeticide, investigation/test racket, reference racket, prescription racket, etc. etc. Latest in the list is the NICU racket I am hearing about. Apparently hospitals keep the newborns in NICU for few days even in cases where it is not at all required. Why so much greed? Why is the medical fraternity not raising strong voice against such bad practices? First thing I hear from doctors when someone talks about unethical practices is denial. Living in denial does not help anybody. Perception of doctors in general public will grow worse unless medical fraternity comes together with a strong resolve to terminate the license of unethical ones.

    Coming to Prof. Dr. Hegde's opinions: We could have ignored the message in the video as blanket statement if it had come from a layman. But that is not the case here. Person giving the message is a distinguished doctor, has trained thousands of doctors, is internationally recognized in the medical field. Therefore we can trust he knows exactly what he is talking about. And remember, he gets nothing for talking like this. So, it is not a racket. He would have made millions if he had taken the opposite path and joined hands with the medical lobby. What does he get by saying what he is saying? Those are the points to think about.
  6. Bala

    Bala Esperto

    Messages:
    1,070
    Villupuram
    I do agree with you,greed has caught up with doctors in a big way,unnecessarily so,because there is enough money anyways.
    But again you can not generalize and for example in my town of 200 doctors only 10 may be greedy and resort to methods which can not even be put in words,but 10 in 200 is not bad.
    I have noticed that doctors who have unfortunately not succeeded in private practice bad mouth both the profession and coleagues,a case of sour grapes.
    prabhjot likes this.
  7. RaviHegde

    RaviHegde Regolare

    Messages:
    299
    Karnataka
    14.62°N 74.85°E
    Grande Punto 1.4
    @Bala Unfortunately "enough" has no meaning when it comes to money. Majority (not just doctors, I am including all people here) think the more they hoard, better it is when it comes to money. Unfortunately beyond some limit they will not use it. More over the more money one has more is the headache of managing and safeguarding it!
    prabhjot, asimpleson and Bala like this.
  8. RaviHegde

    RaviHegde Regolare

    Messages:
    299
    Karnataka
    14.62°N 74.85°E
    Grande Punto 1.4
  9. RaviHegde

    RaviHegde Regolare

    Messages:
    299
    Karnataka
    14.62°N 74.85°E
    Grande Punto 1.4
  10. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Farmers and contract farmers are doing this for greed and competitiveness to use more hormone to improve yield via unnatural early flowering and for improving fruit size. The constant and rampant abuse of plantation is showing in the final quality of fruit. They do realise that it is harming the plant and also results in lower and low quality yields in the consecutive years (cycle) while the plant recovers to some extent via fertilizers and stuff. But still they do it. There is a limit to the amount of chemical they should use to stop vegetative growth and improve the flowering per season, but the ratio is going way off mark these past few years. On one side it is often argued about certain GMOs that are replacing naturally evolved varieties; a similar case can be made for this too.

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