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Major accident 'cos of abnormal behaviour of Punto

Discussion in 'Technical' started by ani1900s, Apr 29, 2014.

  1. mahesh.bandel

    mahesh.bandel Amatore

    Messages:
    240
    Pune
    Grande Punto 1.3
    You must be aware of the terms "Driving Axle" and "Driven Axle". When the CV is a driving axle it can surely make directional changes(That too for a very negligible amount) but in case you are not accelerating or are cruising down a slope the same CV is a driven axle which is moving just because the engine is running and the transmission is engaged, which as per my knowledge will make zirch to the directional stability of any vehicle.
  2. PKMohan

    PKMohan Amatore

    Messages:
    59
    Bangalore
    I beg to differ on this consequence for one CV joint failure. When a CV joint fails, due to differential gears in the transmission the entire torque transfers to the failed side rather than other wheel to push the vehicle forward. We typically observe this when a single wheel stuck in mud/slush, rather than torque being deliver to the wheel which has traction, the wheel stuck in the mud (which doesn't have traction) spins madly making matter worse. Obviously advanced transmission systems have ways and means to detect this and transfer the torque to the required wheel/s, but I believe current Fiat vehicles doesn't have these stuff, I guess we even don't have limited slip differential system.
    In this case I believe something has failed in the steering system, which led to absolutely no control on wheels direction.
    Not sure whether the current state of CVs mentioned anywhere in this thread.
    Regards
  3. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    Well the context of mud you mentioned here is totally contradictory to the statement "When a CV joint fails, due to differential gears in the transmission the entire torque transfers to the failed side rather than other wheel to push the vehicle forward"

    When the vehicle is stuck in the mud, one wheel is locked. This locking holds one side of the differential and then the other side keeps rotating. Even this causes vehicle to twist left and right before the vehicle moves out of the mud. - this happens when the CV joint is intact.

    In the above case if the CV joint fails totally there is no locking from the broken side and the entire velocity/ torque / power is transmitted by the side which is not broken.

    Yes also in this case since Mahesh Bandel says he has witnessed the car and he sees damage on the opposite side of the alloys there are chances that un-knowingly the driver has hit some object which caused damage before the actual accident.
  4. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    2,999
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    This (hypothetical) steering issue is related to front drive axles (left and right), of a front wheel drive car as in this case.

    This discussion of CV joints (or failure thereof) is related to or comprising of the inner CV or outer CV joints and their boot (covers) which I understand are the root cause of CV joint failure. By my limited understanding it's universal application and moreso in cars is to provide constant velocity through the angular axle shaft/s while providing more longitudinal and slight lateral room for movement. The failure of which I assume causes extreme friction and play; resultant in mechanical loss or loss of power at wheels and thereby a difference of balance of power and rotation at front wheels independently of each other especially when linked to transmission power, resulting in steering chaos as is one likely hypothesis for the cause of this particular accident.

    Pardon my limited understanding of mechanicals here. Nothing you explained made sense to me, however that maybe due to my inability to decode or process what you said. No offense at all. I might feel grateful as things begin to unravel in ways I can understand. :)

    Thanx.
    1 person likes this.
  5. mahesh.bandel

    mahesh.bandel Amatore

    Messages:
    240
    Pune
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Nor did your post make sense to me. Maybe that would be due to my inability to decode what you said and I'm sure Italia won't like this post. :p

    Just kidding. No hard feelings. :D

    Cheers,
    Mahesh
  6. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    By the way where is the thread opener? whats the conclusion? i bet Fiat must have found out the cause by now.
  7. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    2,999
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Given that work must have begun soon on the car, I am afraid it would again be more of a hypothesis than a concrete outcome; let's see. ::D

    Well Mahesh Bandel, no kidding man, on a serious note, if you can point me to some links on driving axle and driven axle on online links I will be glad to read. I have had hard time finding references online about what your post could mean. :-|

    As regards terminology used in my post you can surely find ample references and explanations on google last I checked.

    I will sincerely try to decode and understand what you are trying to explain in your post, if only you could help cite relevant reference/s that can help fill in the gaps.
  8. ani1900s

    ani1900s Novizio

    Messages:
    25
    Mumbai
    Mumbai
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Sorry for very delayed reply..... I wanted to conclude this thread earlier but then the entire process of follow up with FIAT took quite a while; over 3 months and everything ended with only disappointment in every field.... FIAT's so called excuse which was basically the Service Centre's explanation was that it was hit by a stone from bottom which had no base but just an excuse to end up the research.... rather I must say that open their incapability of doing any post accident research. I tried to follow up with everyone in FIAT but I received no proper response from anyone and there were series of email....
    All in all with whatever experience I had with FIAT during this accident & repair work is that the best car is unfortunately manufactured by a company who are providing very substandard after sales service. Bugged with their pathetic replies & then understanding their intention of not doing a proper research on my car to find the REAL root cause of the accident & their incapability of doing such research, I gave a green signal to repair my car after a month from the accident and then it took nearly 45 days to repair my car whereas actual work was initially committed for 15 days only.
    I have attached the communication that I had with FIAT Team (deleted my personal records & registration number from the email; still if there were left any then apologize & ignore) and cannot record here the numbers of call that I have made to follow up on the same.
    Anyhow, understood that the supposedly best hatch is manufactured by a company who is unable to provide even a decent service....
    A similar problem occurred with another car who luckily escaped by God's grace.... I can only take that as the actual reason and it also proves that I am not alone who had this problem.... there can be more who would have not reported it online and Service Centres & FIAT would have suppressed the cases at their level.... just a thought.
    Anyway, I am back enjoying my Punto to the fullest and am really happy that I do not have to see Service Centre people every now & then 'cos Punto needs only annual servicing..... Punto Rocks, FIAT Doesn't!

    Attached Files:

    zenwalker likes this.
  9. zenwalker

    zenwalker Esperto

    Messages:
    2,150
    Bangalore
    Rightly said bro.

    However, sorry that you are one of the few, hose who are having bad days with FIAT. See if you wish to join a few guys here who have raised their voice against FIAT in consumer court. It may or may not add up anything but atleast in this country when the voice gets louder then every one wakes up. Fingers crossed that FIAT learns some thing from this.
  10. naruf1

    naruf1 Amatore

    Messages:
    170
    Namma Bengaluru
    Sorry, but I have different view on your case.

    Your conclusions, seems quite contradicting to me on "Punto Rocks and Fiat Doesn't".
    If there is an element of doubt about the manufacturer's capability on producing quality cars then, I would rather not stick with them. However, you seem to be OK with continuing to use your car. Even then, an element of doubt would still remain on the re-occurrence of the accident. Just trying to understand the reason behind the decision.

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