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Major accident 'cos of abnormal behaviour of Punto

Discussion in 'Technical' started by ani1900s, Apr 29, 2014.

  1. pushkaraj

    pushkaraj Amatore

    Messages:
    107
    Pune
    Sorry to hear about your accident , Thanks god all of you are safe. I can't imagine how shaken you and family must be specally when your kid is involved.

    I agree with you on Fiat part , they should try to find out root cause.

    if you only drove your car and it had no underbody impact before accident then only thing which you are unsure about is Servicing -
    : I first thought may be problem was caused by weak CV joints , they may have messed it up while wheel balacing but you are saying that you never felt vibration/steering pullling to left-right. thats something which indicates that seriving was fine.

    One thing to do can be logical is may be involving third party ( someone non associated with Fiat as well as service staion ) , I serached for something like investigator - saw this link "http://www.irte.com/crash-investigation.html" hope they can help.


    In your case speed may not be culprit but still have one doubt , you were really going with 60 KMPH ? Please don't mind but i have not seen Punto MJD going 60 Kmph on expressway ,
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
  2. Let me take it to the right direction. I am reading this site usually, but after reading about your accident was forced to join in and share my views :D

    First of all sorry to hear what you had gone through. I am dead sure about what happened with you. It is a result of improper wheel tightening during the lsat service or something within 1 month before this accident.

    Your left tyre ran loose and made your car to lose control. This is a common phenomenon with the left tyres owing to the thread rotation and direction of wheel movement.

    A very detailed description id given in the below link.. reading it all would definitely give you an insight. How you take up the matter with Fiat is your call.

    Wheel Separation Accidents - Metallurgy Expert, Mark Bailey, PE
    1 person likes this.
  3. ghodlur

    ghodlur Esperto

    Messages:
    2,316
    Thane
    @ani1900s,

    Firstly I am glad that you and your family are safe.

    Secondly really sorry to know about the accident and the damage to your car.

    Thirdly, where is the car now? Is it in Fiat workshop? What are Fiat's initial assesment to the accident causes? We can at lenghts discuss and speculate, let the experts speak. But we would be talking in air, let Fiat come back with the source of problem.

    Fourthly, Whats the Insurance status? Has the surveyor inspected the damages?
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
  4. shams

    shams Esperto

    Messages:
    2,388
    Bangalore
    Ani please understand that all of us are trying to help you here. Till now whatever you have narrated, is not very implicit from the pictures. looking at the pictures it certainly looks like SCs version can also be true. so i guess more investigation is needed to prove it.

    One point i wanted to make is that: lets assume it happened in the sequence as described by you.
    As per the SC there was no impact on the right side and as per you the second impact was on the right tyre and was hard which caused damage to alloy from inside (and broke the steering rod).

    Now if what you are saying is correct then I am pretty sure there would be paint marks (black/yellow) on the FR tyre/alloy from the barricade. The marks could even be on the contact surface of tyres if not on side(if the tyre climbed on the protruding part of barricade). Do you have any pictures of RF tyre taken just after the accident? If the paint marks are missing then i guess we need to believe that steering rod gave way first and try to find why did that happen. On the other hand if paint marks are there, then you have strong chance to make the SC believe that there was something wrong with the car (axle/control arm/steering rod or anything else) before this accident happened.
    8 people like this.
  5. sathishgv

    sathishgv Regolare

    Messages:
    496
    Paradip, odisha
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    ani1900s, I totally agree with you that FIAT's response to you should have been better. They should understand the state of mind in which you were at that time but you see as doctors don't feel the pain of the patient, the FIAT and any product manufacturer in fact, will not have sympathy towards their customers. You should understand that first. Yours is not the only car that meets with an accident. There are lots of cars that meets accidents daily and the general perception of the manufacturer and the insurer will be that the mistake is with the person behind the wheels or some other vehicle on the road and it will take lots of perseverance to convince that there is actually a fault with their product, the chances of which are very less as the product goes through numerous quality checks.

    I appreciate the point that you want to find the root cause of the issue and i doubt that this message has not properly reached the concerned persons because its general for a customer to blame the manufacturer and try to claim warranty. I will not be able to comment much rather than guessing which others have already done, without actually seeing the car in person. The idea of involving a thrid party suggested by pushkaraj is a nice one and you should try that.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
  6. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    2,998
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Shams, perfect reasoning, esp. about the pics part of this thread.

    Ani1900s, we are not trained in forensics for vehicle accidents, yet it is really heartening that some of the fellow members including Italia-Linea or Shams and also others are trying to investigate the issue from the given data and description.

    As far as my initial post is concerned, it has more to do with the phrase 'Hindsight is 20/20'. All things aside you are safe and so is your family. Atleast I have never suggested that you should not investigate; I too would have done the same. But what if there is not perfect answer, what will you feel then. Suggestion was that you should focus more on being very happy that you and your family are safe, and henceforth see what extra measures could be taken from your side. Believe it or not as much as one likes to think he or she is in control, we are not. This incident of yours, if you think deeply about it, has that thought written all over it.

    Sometimes much more important than investigating a fault or failure is how to deal with things later. Everytime I think of your situation, I can see myself and my near and dear ones also in similar shoes, that's the only way I can try co-relate to your situation and feelings. There is a lesson here for all of us here irrespective of fault or no fault, what fault or who's fault.

    Thanx.
    3 people like this.
  7. shashanknathani

    shashanknathani Superiore

    Messages:
    993
    Pune
    Please note I see that air bags were deployed. Please get them replaced as a part of repair.
  8. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    2,998
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    I think they surely must be covered in the initial repair quote of 3.25 lacs...:confused:
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
  9. ani1900s

    ani1900s Novizio

    Messages:
    25
    Mumbai
    Mumbai
    Grande Punto 1.3
    One thing to do can be logical is may be involving third party ( someone non associated with Fiat as well as service staion ) , I serached for something like investigator - saw this link "http://www.irte.com/crash-investigation.html" hope they can help.

    @Pushkaraj Thanks for sharing the info of third party investigators; so happy to see such trend starting in India. I have driven cars in many countries of Asia Pacific and have witnessed a proper investigating policy to ensure accidents do not recur 'cos of similar cause. However, on first the site looks like it belongs to an institute to train traffic police on crash investigation; tried calling their number but no reply, have sent them an email describing in brief, will update you post I receive their reply. Am searching for other third party investigators, please share if anyone has any contacts.
    And by the way, the speed was around 60-65kmph, with family sitting behind and when the curved roads of hill Lonavla starts, you tend slow down. If I was driving alone, then the speed obviously would have been a bit higher.
    And thanks @pushkaraj for highlighting again the reason why I started this thread; FIAT needs to find the root cause, but they are not even trying and hence my request first was to provide a contact to whom I cam escalate in FIAT.


    The key to find the cause lies in the statement that my car went berseck going in left & right direction for a second before I regained control and during this moment when the car moved left & right, the steering was rock steady & straight. The wheels turned but steering did not, that is why I am emphasizing on abnormal behaviour of this vehicle. (even the slight movement of tyre while going through a rough patch causes an equivalent jerk on our steering wheel, then why it did not happen in that second).


    @Muztariq thank you for your comment on this thread and providing me with another link to understand cause of many mishaps. However, the wheel was intact even after the accident, so I do not think that wheel separation should have any connection with my mishap, what do you think?

    @ghodlur the car is at FIAT service station, the same place where I got it serviced little over month before the accident. They have provided me with a report and this report have not at all touched any of the facts that I mentioned. If at all something hit from bottom right, then how is that it accurately only hit the steering rod and broke it and then that thing disappeared without hitting any other part of vehicle from top or bottom? And if something hit before the impact, then did the car remain scratchless or totally unharmed when I hit the right side divider which eventually stopped the car? The right alloy wheel has a big & sharp dent and the tyre was punctured, is it possible to go left to hit the left side first? (the car was moving left right and heading towards left side of the road)
    The surveyor has inspected the damaged, so far the cost stands at 2.5 lacs, out of which around 80-85k is my share and have kept parts of 60-70k open, that might add to the cost.
    @shashanknathani @asimpleson both airbags and the dashboard is included in the insurance claim right from estimate till date; safety first

    @sathishgv I understand what you mean and agree with you to a large extent, doctors do not feel your pain but then they cure your pain; I do not want FIAT to understand my state of mind, but just to understand their vehicle's act and just like a doctor, I want them to diagnose my vehicle; now am I asking too much? It is matter of safety at last; I feel the members of Team Fiat are doing much better job than FIAT company itself by giving me so many leads & learning. If you guys can try to investigate the cause just by reading & seeing pictures, then FIAT has the entire vehicle to do their research and come to a conclusion, let it be any. What I received initially is an assumption, not conclusion from a research...... please note the vehicle is still not stripped open and I have the report already, how is this possible?

    @shams sorry bro, in that after accident panic with my wife & daughter sitting behind, I did not take any pictures. But I have some images that the SC have sent, give me some time and I will upload them all here.
  10. pdash

    pdash Regolare

    Messages:
    382
    Bangalore
    Mahadevapura
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Very sorry to read this. At least thanks to God that you people are safe.

    Estimated cost 3.25 Lacs sound too huge to me . You can buy a second hand car in good condition with that price .

    Please try to find the real root of the issue and share here.

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