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ICE Considerations

Discussion in 'In Car Entertainment' started by johnny, Jan 17, 2011.

  1. johnny

    johnny Regolare

    Messages:
    437
    Greater Noida
    Greater Noida
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Hi Shadowfax,

    Morel speakers are good. I cannot comment about the prices since you have not indicated the specific model.

    Be careful about the amp fitment. As far as I know, the HU does not have a "pre-out". So most installers will connect the amp to the "speaker out" directly - will create all sorts of problems & will also sound quite bad.

    Damping of all four doors (see my response to Vivek_lko as to why it is required), using material like Dynamat extreme will cost close to 6k @ 1.5k per door. So I do not know what the installer plans to do for Rs 800/=. Good damping will make a big difference to the sound.

    Your decision to not have tray speakers is in my opinion correct.

    Regards
    Johnny
  2. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Nice choice but just a thought

    1. do u really need rear coax (put the same money in getting better comps)
    2. try the kenwood amp for 6500(far superior to jvc)


    @vivek,
    Its bad to hear such a thing. As for your queries

    1. yes you can drive the comps from the head unit it causes no harm to the comps. I am running my Hyundai accent comps on kenwood head unit for the past 2 years now, no probs what so ever. An amplifier basically helps in amplifying the sound produced by the respective speakers as the additional power supplied by it only helps to get better sound and control over it. So without any hesitation you can drive your comps through the Head Unit. but since you have an amp its better to use it. Also you can inquire from other members on the forum who have the pnp installed, as to whether or not they are also facing the same problem.

    2. You should go back to driven and get the install done properly and complete with all the missing elements put in place. I am sure they will gladly do it. Looks like driven has started listening to customer problems.

    Sir is it possible for us to meet as I would like to listen to the rattles that have come up, as I myself drove my car for more 8 months without damping and never felt the need to do it either as the doors are quite resistant to any kind of sound resonating. My setup back then consisted of speakers being powered at 150W each(bridged) and an IDQ sub at 550 WRMS(mono).
  3. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Regolare

    Hi Johnny,

    I did post forward the inputs you had to the person who provided me with the following

    Requesting you to please indicate the specific model for both front and back speakers?

    If i am not mistaken for the Punto i may need 6.5" speakers for the front and 5.25" for the rear (you can fit 6.5" speakers in the rear with an adapter).

    I have a few concerns about the amp fitment.
    As far as I know, the Head Unit does not have a "pre-out". So most installers will connect the amp to the "speaker out" directly wont this create all sorts of problems & will also sound quite bad.

    Coming to the last part Damping of all four doors, I am interested to know the type of material that is being used.



    And what if i opt to go for only front and rear speakers without an AMP?

    TO which he has replied back with

    1) front sound staging- morel MAXIMO 6.5" components 6500/-
    2) rear audio fill more 6.5" coax speakers morel MAXIMO 4500/-
    3) four channel jvc amplifier 3104 6000/-

    4) cabling & installation 2800/-
    5) sound damping 800/-


    1) front sound staging- morel MAXIMO 6.5" components 6500/-
    2) rear audio fill more 6.5" coax speakers morel MAXIMO 4500/-
    3) four channel jvc amplifier 3104 6000/-
    Yes to make these speakers play up to there potential , clear , tight
    & well defined , they have to b amplified.
    Also there is no problem at all if the amp is connected to direct
    speaker wires provided it's done by a professional .

    Awaiting your inputs
  4. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    What cables are being used SF, also for the rear mounts you done need any adaptor(???), its can easily be done with MDF rings
  5. johnny

    johnny Regolare

    Messages:
    437
    Greater Noida
    Greater Noida
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Hi shadowfax,

    Firstly, about the amp fitment: The problem is that the OEM HU has only high-level "speaker" outputs. The amp requires low-level "line" inputs. This will lead to an incompatibility, unless you use a "line-level adapter", or "line-out converter", which makes them compatible. In case the installer can do this you are OK. Otherwise, you will have problems as I said in my earlier post.

    Secondly, regarding damping: The preferred material used by most installers is Dynamat Extreme. This will cost approx 6K for all four doors. So query him, about what he is planning for 800/=. There are many who feel damping is not required since the Punto is built solidly. The real point of damping is that, in a car door, the door cavity forms the speaker enclosure. This is an "infinite baffle" enclosure. Infinite baffle is perhaps the oldest, and most simple speaker enclosure - most modern speaker systems use 'bass reflex' etc (with a port for enhancing the bass). For an infinite baffle enclosure, you need to receive only the sound coming from the front. This means that the sound from the rear must be totally damped, or absorbed for good sound quality. If the damping is not done, then you will get the reflected sounds from the rear of the speaker, and this will affect the sound quality. A brand like Morel or Rainbow is all about clarity. If at the end of the day, you do not get this clarity, then you have not got value for money.

    The correct size for the rear is 5.25". But you can use 6.5" with an adapter (MDF ring). I have got 6.5 co-axials in the rear.

    Last point is that the installer must not cut any wires. This will affect your warranty.

    I hope I have answered your queries.

    Regards
    Johnny
  6. varoon9999

    varoon9999 Superiore

    Messages:
    769
    New Delhi,HP 48
    New Delhi,HP 48
    Grande Punto 1.3
    one of my friend is coming from London in august.am planning to source some ICE stuff from London.

    need suggestion regarding the stuff which can be sourced ....want to keep the same original blaupunkt HU..

    budget closes @ 15k (if it turns to be complementary).

    only amplifier and sub woofer ?????

    any specifications?????how much would be the approx weight and price for both amp and woofer??
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  7. vivek_lko

    vivek_lko Amatore

    Messages:
    237
    Noida
    Though I dont increase my volume to 18 but how do we know that Clipping has occured ? Is there some distortion in the sound. If I put the Bass and Treble at +6 at restrict the volume to about 12 , can the clipping still occur ? Can I damage the speakers by keeping the Bass at +6 ?

    I will definitely get the Punto Spacer Rings installed.
    Just for information , today I decided to do some basic checks on the Door Pads and I found that one of the doors which was rattling as the volume was increased was due to loose screws at the bottom of the pad . I tightened it and the rattling was gone. Now none of the doors rattle "normally" . "Normally" I say because previously they were rattling on every song which had bass in it(I guess the particular door was the culprit) . However after tightening the screw now the rattling is occasional . Sometimes it would come and sometimes it would be perfectly ok. So I guess its not easy to detect the cause :(. Anyways I would get the spacer rings installed from Driven and then see if the occasional rattling also goes away.

    @Phew : I would go to Driven for the spacer rings sometimes in July and we can meet at Driven it self. In fact you might not be remembering , but I have already met you once at Driven :) . I guess sometimes in March/April, when the TFI site was getting upgraded . You also had some of your friends who were getting Sunfilm installed on their brand new Polo 1.6 . As mentioned in the above reply to Johnys comment , the rattling is now very occasional but it does occur ; so when you hear it , it might not be there :mad:. I will just get the rear spacer rings and see if it improves anything. And if I have a positive experience at Driven I would not hesitate to write that too :p.
  8. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    It is very much possible that if u keep the eq settings that high, clipping will start at lower volumes. there are slight distortions and the sound starts to bite ur ears when there is clipping, the beats simply go missing.
    Yes keeping the bass and treble that high can take a huge toll at the speakers, by doing so u are making them go beyond there optimum level, at which they are tuned to perform. Overdose of anything is bad

    I do remember meeting you and I had no idea who the guy was in the polo :p

    I feel bad that you are facing such problems from there end, but I guess you should mention the same things to them first.
    and how did you manage to disconnect the amp and play the speakers directly.

    U see we keep the settings at 0/OFF just because all this is taken care of by the amp, that is the reason we fine tune the amp, and if u amplify the speakers from both the sources then clipping will set in way earlier than the usual 80%.

    sure drop by at driven, will, will meet u there :)
  9. vivek_lko

    vivek_lko Amatore

    Messages:
    237
    Noida
    O really but I remember you challenging those guys for some race :steering

    Relatively very simple . The wires that come out of the HU to the Ampli have a male connector and the wires that go from the Ampli to the speakers have a female connector. The ampli is in between them. Simply remove the male connector and connect it to female connector. Two sets of these connectors are there . And the Ampli is bypassed in 2 minutes.. :)
  10. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Sorry we done race.....Its "DRAGS" all the way :)

    but anyways I think its better to go to driven and discuss this, all we can offer here at the forum is advise, we can give the solution but cant sort it.

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