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ICE Considerations

Discussion in 'In Car Entertainment' started by johnny, Jan 17, 2011.

  1. johnny

    johnny Regolare

    Messages:
    437
    Greater Noida
    Greater Noida
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @vivek,

    Firstly, you should have gone for Compos in the front & Co-axials in the rear. You seem to have done it the other way around. Since both are 6.5" you could consider swapping them.

    Secondly, you have not mentioned whether you have done damping. If not, please get it done.

    Rainbows are good speakers, and they should not distort unless you are playing the HU at volumes in excess of about 17 with the amp as advised by Driven. Beyond this value there is likely to be distortion from the HU. If the music is distorting at lower values, then the installation has not been done correctly. Also at volumes below about 17 there should not be any problem of changing the values of bass, treble, Eq etc. Restrictions of these settings is also indicative of some installation problems. This will have to be rectified by the installer.

    The last point is that in case you are playing MP3s, check the 'gain' values of the recordings using a freeware called "MP3 Gain". In case the gain is excessive and 'clipping' is indicated, then you can reset the gain to a lower value - I use 89%. Excessive gain can also lead to distortion.

    Regards
    Johnny
  2. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    passing 50-65 hertz and above is not a good idea for components. ideally 80hz and above are made for the components to handle better.

    similarly if you are cutting off all frequencies above 50hz from playing in the woofer then you are loosing lot of bass thats present between 50-80hz.
    most of songs have bass spread out between 40-80hz.

    if you have subsonic filter set it to 35hz. 35hz and below is not good for woofer.

    ya and the sub plays best when its facing you when you open the boot and the box should be pushed way back towards the seat just leaving 4-6 inches.

    in this way the sound waves produced by the sub travel in oscillating manner towards the boot bounces back without cancelling the active bass.
    Last edited: May 8, 2011
  3. vivek_lko

    vivek_lko Amatore

    Messages:
    237
    Noida
    Hi Johnny,
    Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the confusion . Its actually Compos in the front(separate woofer and tweeter) and coaxials in the Rear. Damping has been done. Actually I told Driven that I leave it on to them to put in the best installation since I heard pretty good reviews about them . My budget was 20K , but later on after the interaction with Driven it was almost stretched to 33K which I think is not less considering that there is no sub-woofer. What do you think ?
    But now after these limitations suggested by Driven I am just wondering if they are covering up some bad installation. Just to tell you actually when they were trying to install the 6.5 at the rear, the installer, when he had started the installation and opened up the new speakers, and said (after trying to install them with the 6.5 spacer rings) that the same would not fit as the space is for smaller ( i guess 5.25 inche) speakers. Ideally they should have known this already !!!Why to open up the speakers and try them !!! Anyways I told them to try the 5.25v inche speakers but they said that the 5.25 speakers would not do justice to the Amplifier . Thinking that these guys are experts I let them have their way. They also suggested that no damping is requred in the rear . They suggested to install the speakers directly on to the door without the spacer rings . .This actually dented the rim of the speakers when they were screwing it up and also resulted in a rattle in a few days time. I took the car back to them and the speakers were loose and they screwed them up (again without the spacer rings) and also did damping at the rear. When i told them that this is not a good idea to tighten them directly on to the metal(with just a thin rubber strip in between the speakers and the door) they said that they dont have the Punto rear spacer rings with them. Though I was irritated I did not show my anger. Actually Ideally if this was the case then they should have told me before only. Till date I have the speakers directly installed on the door without the spacer rings and I think sooner or latetr they will start rattling again. I was told by Mr Rana of Driven that once they have the Punto Rear spacer rings they will call me but that call is still to come . Further my rear door has been opened twice for the speakers. Every time it is opened one of the plastic locks (that actually tighten the inner door padding to the outer door) breaks up . The guys at driven say that this is due to the faulty Door lock design in the new Puntos as the old Puntos had a different door lock design. I dont know how far this is true. Did you also face this problem ? Anyways this is a reason why I rate them 7/10 or may be even lower as sometimes there is a slight rattle in the right rear door. Am waiting for it to increase and thne will take them again . Hope I dont again loose another Rear door plastic lock.

    The last point is that in case you are playing MP3s, check the 'gain' values of the recordings using a freeware called "MP3 Gain". In case the gain is excessive and 'clipping' is indicated, then you can reset the gain to a lower value - I use 89%. Excessive gain can also lead to distortion This is something intersting and I will definitely try it . Thanks for the inputs !!!
  4. johnny

    johnny Regolare

    Messages:
    437
    Greater Noida
    Greater Noida
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Hi Vivek,

    From your post, I get the impression that Driven has not done a proper job.

    Firstly, the spacer rings are made of MDF, and normally they cut them to size using a power jigsaw. The speakers are mounted on these. Putting these rings ensures that the mounting depth limitation of the speakers is overcome - speakers will not touch the outer door panel etc. It also ensures a better and damped fit. So, this talk of "spacer ring for Punto.." is just "slick business talk". If you do not put these rings you will continue to have problems of rattling/distortion etc.

    The correct size for the rear speakers is 5.25". However, you can fit 6.5" speakers using spacer rings. I am using 6.5" compos for the rear. You could get details from my post "Speaker change on my Emotion Pack". So get the spacer rings fitted. Also get the rear door damped.

    The panel locks should not have broken if they had been opened carefully. To me it appears that the installer was not experienced enough. I did not have any problem with my door panels which were opened twice.

    Another point that comes to my mind is that I hope that he has given you genuine Rainbow speakers with a proper bill & warranty.

    Lastly, in case you have not already done so, you could read my first post in this thread, and also my post "Speaker change on my Emotion pack". After reading them, you might be in a better position to tackle Mr Rana.

    Regards
    Johnny
  5. Viny

    Viny Esperto

    Messages:
    1,742
    :)
    My previous settings where

    Front
    HPF - 70-80hz
    Gain - 5-6V

    Sub
    LPF - 60-70hz
    Gain - 0.3V

    Problem was that amplifier was clipping a lot at volume above 12-13 and I was missing the punch on front end too.
    So was fiddling around with settings, where I made

    Front
    HPF - 50hz - 60hz
    Gain - 6V (approx)

    Subwoffer
    LPF - 60hz
    Gain - 0.3v

    Clipping still occurs but it happens when the volume is around 18-20 on HU.
    Tuning is be slightly problematic given that i have placed the amp in boot, so have to move around every now and then figure out how things are shapping up.
    Will keep updating on this to get the best configs.
  6. Viny

    Viny Esperto

    Messages:
    1,742
    :)
    Sorry for Back to back posting.

    I need to set the gain levels correctly first to ensure the clipping doesnt occur, followed by HPF and LPF settings and making a proper curve.
    Will give it some try tomorrow. How i wished there was a digital display to show whats the correct setting, as of now its more like guess work based on angle of the hpf and lpf arrow buttons :(
  7. varoon9999

    varoon9999 Superiore

    Messages:
    769
    New Delhi,HP 48
    New Delhi,HP 48
    Grande Punto 1.3
    26 may deadline......

    Hi All,

    need your opinion with regard to ICE need to be done on my black ogre....

    am too naive in ICE dept,over these days i have mulled over installing Rockford fosgate,,,

    My budget is 10k

    fond of base always

    need suggestions on putting which combination all compos/two compos+2 coax :confused::confused:

    one of my friend has got prime series on his skoda ,all without damping,sound was too
    good really liked it.friend suggested me to go for punch series of speakers if am quite particular about base....


    which one is better prime or punch in rock ford fosgate
    Aftermath of putting all components ::pP::pP::pP::pP
  8. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    @Viny,
    i am not able to understand why your amp is clipping. it shouldnt clip. while tuning first put your volume to 2/3rd of max volume and set the gain. when you just observe clipping turn the knob to just lower the gain. it seems you have set the gains too high than your amp can handle. 12-13 volume to clip is too low.
    Second possibility is mismatch between power produced by amp and that of speakers rating.

    but frequencies should be near to what i mentioned for correct reproduction of sound.
  9. livelyyoungman

    livelyyoungman Regolare

    Messages:
    428
    Chennai
    Chennai
    Linea 1.3
    Me too jumping the ICE way. Two options for guru's to answer

    1. Dr. Shiva's setup all Focal way - Solid 4, Polyglass components and coaxials and sub
    2. Details as follows:
    Cerwin vega VEGA400.4 4channel amplifier
    Cerwin Vega Vega65cs 6.5" Component Speakers
    Memphis SE52 5.25" Speakers
    Memphis SE100.2 2 Channel Amplifier
    Memphis SE12S4 12" Subwoofer

    Again I toe the docs way - better sound quality and fidelity.
  10. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @varoon : punch is a better option anyday

    @livelyyoungman : if i were u i would go the all focal way

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