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Honda Brio Amaze: Thin wall Diesel engine

Discussion in 'Non FIAT Cars and two wheelers' started by Sat-Chit-ananda, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. DRIV3R

    DRIV3R Esperto

    Absolutely agree with you Amit. Reliability is the Japs forte. We need to observe for more time before vouching for the i-Dtec s reliability though, agree?

    And yes, true about the fill it shut it forget it part too. I know the number of warranty replacements and the number of visits I have made to the ASS owning a Fiat. But I prefer that rather than being seen in a reliable car with a flimsy build and lesser driving pleasure.

    @sat, if the engine oil is black does it not mean that it is performing it's job of removing the impurities from the internals? Taking engine oil color as an yardstick to quantify something about a car seems weird to me, sorry. :)

    Like the unholy trinity at TopGear often say, you are not a petrolhead unless you own an Alfa Romeo. With the same analogy, it IS Fiat in India, I believe. Cheers!

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
    2 people like this.
  2. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    The flip side of the coin lies the highest number of recalls and the most deadly quality issues like airbag failures, accelerators remaining depressed, so many deaths, hefty fines paid to the US and other governments etc by Honda and Toyota. Not to mention recently suzuki went bankrupt in US.

    Totally agree with you that Japanese have less maintainance than europeans, but comparing segment to segment European cars offer a lot more value for the money you pay. I am still wondering why honda has not managed to put a climate control AC and a proper head unit with connectivity in the City yet.
    With more features and the way technicians at service stations handling it the probability of failures increase.

    Having driven the City old model as well as new so many times there is nothing extraordinary in it. The suspensions are no where close to any of the european cars and light years behind than Fiat ride and handling dynamics.
    In case of accidents too the flimsy build quality of Honda comes out like a sore middle thumb on the owners. You can service many times but life cant risked so many times.
    Now some people may start debating that heavier doesnt mean safer. Yes true , but comparing a modern built car like linea with city its quite evident that honda is no where close to the strong build quality of Fiat.

    Fiat can easily go with cheaper sheet metal, cheaper thin tyres, but thats not the concept of european cars where people drive very fast on autobahns and prefer safer and stable cars.

    Huh " While writing this i am watching TV and look at the news, 3.4 million cars of honda, toyota , nissan and more recalled due to failure in passenger side airbags, which suddenly burst"

    Secondly critics always go very strong when it comes to Fiat. The epic ground clearance. Linea had 168mm and city has 165. On top of that city lowers into the wheel arcs as soon as 3 people sit at the back. Still no one cries about Honda. City scrapes almost everywhere.

    Coming to the Amaze - yes its again a good package with best pricing from honda. Lets see how the LIGHTEST diesel engine works. They have kept the weight of the car 950kgs , kept the engine very much underpowered so that it runs under less stress. So i think there wont be more problems like european counterparts which extract more power from same capacity engine on heavy cars.

    A similar capacity Fiat engine extracts 120bhp and 320nm of whopping torque and pulls a 1300kg like a locomotive.

    My linea has always given me smile smile and smile. Nothing else. Yes i changed the strut pads and struts - not becuase they went bad, but becuase fiat changed the design and now they are better ones that wont fail soon. Apart from this i too have filled it drove it with smile every metre i travel.

    The most important part, i feel i am safe as soon as i shut the door. I have seen so many accidents involving Fiat cars and Honda cars as well - i need on mention the outcomes, all know it here.

    Conclusion - Fiat is the insurance of life.

    - - - Merged Post - - -

    Instead of going on heresays i request everyone that one should give a technical though on that too.

    What do you expect from the most underpowered 2.5 litres diesel engine running on the leanest mixture. 100bhp and just 200nm torque? pulling a 1650kgs?
    Even a 2.2 litres tata engine is putting up 140bhp and 320nm torque and pulling 2000kgs. Same with mahindra.

    Also a mineral oil has less carbon carrying capacity. The modern synthetic oils look black immediately as they absorb and clean up the carbon within the engine fitted with EGR in more efficient way.

    So dont go by the oil color. If you find a diesel engine oil not becoming black then the oil is not doing its duty.

    But yes. The toyota innova engine is very reliable , have seen lacs and lacs of kms done on tourist innovas. So it does the intended purpose of MPV where power is not of prime importance.

    I just want to say that do a pier to pier comparison.
    19 people like this.
  3. jayadev

    jayadev Esperto

    Kannur, India
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    Driving a Fiat is swimming against the current .At every competition you about to get cornered .So it is high time Fiat realize this agony and buckle up .
    We are all egoistic beings. It is quite inconvenient to explain why I bought a car which is slow and less efficient is safer than rest.
    Where is the Punto T-tjet for 7 lakhs?;Irony!
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  4. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Very well said Jayadev. The true qualities of Fiat are well hidden from the masses due to ignorance, pessimist people, lack of advertisement from Fiat, mismanagement from Fiat and more n no of reasons.

    While we can agree that 0-100 timings on out cars are slow, one overlooks the fact the 20-80 or 20-100 timings are the fastest of the lot. If you give a practical approach, where 90% of the time you are on move and can be faster than rest of the cars, unless you try your 0-100 sprint which is only once in a while in the practical world.

    30-80.jpg 40-100.jpg
    9 people like this.
  5. Poor choice of word .Hearsay in this context a overstated word, I would expect better explanation from the technical forum that would help people reading these posts.You may want to make this as another thread if you want.I have clearly written what i saw that cannot be hearsay!! I don't deny that i also wrote what I heard too.Please don't make generalized comments but point out to the exact statement you are making a comment.

    Please be open. Don't have a thinking that MJD is the only best engine in the market.It is very good no doubt but I have read several of long run Diesel engine from past decade reporting clean oil from the dipstic.Innova is one example what we can see in India.I am not at all contesting it's power rating only how clean the engine is even after few thousand kms of run.

    16-11-12, 07:05 PM

    I have a 2003 Isuzu 300TDI LX and contrary to my experience with Diesel engine oil which very quickly becomes pitch black, mine does not.

    Even after 10,000Km, the engine oil can be wiped off the dipstick between finger and thumb, spread all over your hands and it does not leave any mark at all.

    I know that the oil must clean the engine and hold the deposits in suspension. The deposits are then flushed out when the oil is drained. I suspected that the oil might not be doing its job & that the engine would be dirty inside but an inspection showed that it is sparkling clean.

    I have used both Castrol Diesel and Caltex Delo 400. Both deliver the same results.

    When I checked a new Peugeot Partner Diesel panel van with just 2000Km on the clock the other day, the oil was pitch black and stained my hands severely.

    Any theories on why this should be. (The Isuzu has done 270,000Km)

    Another post on similar lines

    17-11-12, 12:16 PM

    I had the same experience with my Nissan 30 TD 16V. When I sold it at 75000 kilos the engine oil was still as clean as if it came out the can at 10000 every kilo service.

    Nobody could explain the reason. I used the most expensive Shell Rimula Super Diesel Engine Oil.

    I use the same oil in my Fortuner, and the oil goes black as it hits the sump!

    Source of above posts are from Why does the engine oil stay so clean [Archive] - 4x4 Community Forum, I really doubt why would a Car owner report some thing that is not reality.
    If the Oil is not cleaning properly , then how come Innova post 5 lakh kms or Isuzu in pointer thread run 270K kms? How a the same Shell rimula oil stays with honey colour in Nissan 30 TD (16V) and turns black in Fortuner ?
  6. amit

    amit Superiore

    Navi Mumbai
    Polo TSi is round the corner. Fiat had the TJet for year's and they kept sleeping. You can never win the war if you have a timid approach. Fiat have lost the first mover advantage again.

    If only more people were as mature & open minded.
  7. I read some where that Polo TSI will have only turbo but no super charger.Can some one confirm.
  8. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

    Linea 1.3
    FIAT will definitely lose the first mover advantage in the Punto without the Tjet. But the Abarth is coming to beat the TSI though may be priced above TSI. Knowing VW the TSI wont come cheap.

    Yes. Agreed, but the comparison also needs to be apples to apples and not apples to ornages or vice versa. Innova's engine is in such a low state of tune, I wont be surprised if it runs a million kms. I would love to see the comparable BHP litre spec and then see if it still lasts the way its doing.

    Its one thing to detune to engine and make it last long and giving a higher state of tune and still the engine works properly during the lifetime of the car.
    4 people like this.
  9. ^^ Krishna,

    Got your point, I will check some Liva/Etios Diesel engine oil, although they are not apple to apple but very close in terms of specs.
  10. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

    Linea 1.3
    Again the 1.4 D4D is a decade old design with a 2 valve per cylinder producing merely 68 bhp for a 1.4 litre. Still the engine is in very sedate state of tune. Actually the 3.0 D4D is in higher state of tune as compared to 1.4 D4D or 2.4 D4D. With higher state of tune, it definitely better components to keep it running for an appriaciable time frame.
    1 person likes this.

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