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Honda Brio Amaze: Thin wall Diesel engine

Discussion in 'Non FIAT Cars and two wheelers' started by Sat-Chit-ananda, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Not sure what Honda is trying to achieve, A relatively new comer in Diesel engines tries to make thin walled Engine throwing away the popular practice of thick metal die cast.Are we going to see Deisel engines wearing out like petrol engines earlier than what it is now about 4-6 lakh Kms ?
    Let us discuss this bring out your thoughts and shoot them in to this thread.

    The heart of the matter which, for any Honda, continues to remain its powerplant. A bit of history is wrought in here because for long Honda as also many other Japanese marques shunned diesels like the plague and the ferocity with which Honda’s engineers and management resented the compression ignition engine was vehemently felt. Grudgingly, for Europe a diesel was needed especially as regards its Accord plus also the CR-V and it was for these products that it came up with an all-aluminium block and head 2.2-litre i-CTDI diesel, reputed to be one of the most sophisticated engines ever to come out of Japan. However, Honda didn’t want to peddle this any beyond Europe given the complexity of the engine and also its ability to only run on high grade diesel with very low sulphur content.



    The harsh economic climate though was the one which forced Honda to re-evaluate its intransigence vis-à-vis its move to develop a range of diesels and with markets like India and Europe being huge on diesel acceptance and usage there had to be progress on all new small diesels and that is where the firm’s Earth Dream Technology programme got underway. This was close to 2010 when work began and as we have witnessed with the 1.6-litre i-DTEC unit which debuted at the Paris Auto Salon a month ago, the new 1.5-litre i-DTEC for India is just that very unit but with a shorter stroke and slightly different exhaust treatment. The move to a 1.5-litre displacement was also dictated by our excise dispensation and overall the architecture and design plus construction and ancillaries are common between the two.



    While we have seen oil burners and some of the best there are in the world, Honda’s moves with thin wall die-cast techniques have been tremendous and not only has weight been pared off massively, this has happened without impinging on structural integrity. It has all come above by virtue of good design and the need to scrub off power-sapping frictional losses. The upside to this is a small unit which spins to just above 4200rpm, makes do with tremendous lugging ability (serious torque develops from just around 1200rpm and then the thick torque stream hits its peak and surges on from 1500rpm and above till 3000rpm). With the 1.6-litre in Europe rated for 120PS and 300Nm of torque, one can safely be looking at 110PS and about the same torque for the 1.5-litre here in India. No figures were released by Honda on the engine’s vital stats but what were divulged were the shorter stroke and also the same all-new 5-speed gearbox as on the European 1.6-litre i-DTEC unit. The interesting thing about the new motor is that it makes do with a fixed geometry rotor in the turbocharger (sourced from Garratt) but the engine designers have said that a VGT is on the cards for more powerful versions indicating quite what we said over a month ago – larger powered versions with the same displacement would be found to do duty in cars not just like the City but is also a possibility in the Civic giving a new lease of life for Honda’s mid-size executive express.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2012
    6 people like this.
  2. sungoa2010

    sungoa2010

    Messages:
    2,878
    Goa
    I think we have to wait and see why they have done and how they are performing. The materiel science and technology are now days so advanced that it is possible to deviate from conventional materiel used to build the engines to new light weight engineered materiel. With honda let us wait and see whether it is a engineering brake through or cost cutting.:)
    1 person likes this.
  3. Call me a stereotype , to me what Honda/Suzuki does is more of cost reduction and to keep their Dealers happy by the way of ensuring cars don't last long enough with out paying them huge sums of money as maintenance + engine part replacements.
    2 people like this.
  4. saroshmk

    saroshmk

    Messages:
    53
    Hyderabad
    This is learning for me! But why haven't other manufacturers thought on the lines of Honda? After all, keeping dealers happy should be on most manufacturer's minds?
    1 person likes this.
  5. amit

    amit Superiore

    Messages:
    767
    Navi Mumbai
    No comments about Suzuki but your opinion counter's that of the majority of markets round the world. Japanese car's have proved themselves round the world for being trouble free, extremely reliable and easy to maintain. Typically, European cars are the most fussy when it comes to maintenance. Japanese car's may not feel as solidly built as European car's but they outlast most European models by a huge margin.

    Why go far? I have a Japanese & a European car and the Japanese one is way more reliable then the European one.
    4 people like this.
  6. sungoa2010

    sungoa2010

    Messages:
    2,878
    Goa
    I agree with Amit in terms of service and life of parts. But in case of safety European cars are more reliable.
  7. I agree with Amit and Sun but just look at a OHC which may be 10-12 years old OHC and look at equally aged palio.
    You will know what I am talking about, i own a 2003 Zen and struggling to keep it niggle free.
    I never spent so much time in Punto in last three years as much I spent on Zen and Wagon R.My close friend has ANHC and from the day one boot door rattles and he is not even aware that there is rattling issue in his car.each pot hole gets thud-tuk noise from front suspensions but same guy bashes up FIAT saying they are crap!!, when i sit in car interior is so dirty it is so difficult to keep them clean (but i was the one who drove the car from Dakshin honda during delivery it looked like not car but space ship )that is when i stopped cribbing about Punto's interior colors and quality.
    May be people who buy them also matters i brought them with intention of keeping them how they came out of dealers showrooms or making it even better not every one is an enthusiast.

    Please look from lens of an enthusiast and I am sure you will agree with me.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  8. amit

    amit Superiore

    Messages:
    767
    Navi Mumbai
    Compare them in terms of what? Looks? Palio is timeless. I agree. In terms of reliability? Lot depends on how the owner maintains the car but the odds would be on the Honda preforming better then the Palio. Problem with Palio is even if owner wants to maintain the car today, he will have a tough time finding spares thanks to Fiat!

    I'll tell you in my City if I crank up the volume on the stereo the door pads rattle. I already said Japs don't feel as solidly built as European's. But in reliablity Japs outlas Europeans easily.

    How is that Honda's or the car's fault?! The problem are beige interior's. Indians love beige, I have always hated them. It's tough maintaining beige but Fiat gives beige in the Linea as well.

    In various threads on this forum, I have mentioned how the Punto is infinitely better to drive then the City. I even prefer the Punto's interior design to the City's. While the City's interior design feels toy like the Punto's feel solid. I will say it the loudest that any Euro car is better to drive then a Japanese one. And I will still be the loudest to say that most Jap cars are more reliable then Euro's. Hope you noticed the difference between any and most :).
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
    7 people like this.
  9. ramjn

    ramjn Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    5,244
    Chennai
    Linea 1.3
    Honda's reliability is indisputable. No doubt about that. While I was searching for a used car for my commute in US, I came across a well maintained 1992 Honda accord with 1,81,000 miles on Odo. Still going good. No major repair done on the car except for regular maintenance, timing belt and some transmission service. What else one can expect from a manufacturer? No wonder Japs are loved in US.
  10. PatchyBoy

    PatchyBoy Esperto

    Messages:
    2,438
    Bangalore
    Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the mechanics German, the lovers Italian and it's all organised by the Swiss.
    Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the lover's Swiss, the police German and it's all organised by the Italians.

    Sorry about the Japs not being in the picture.

    Rajan
    9 people like this.

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