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Discussion in 'Linea 1.4 Fire' started by Rohit Mitra, Apr 22, 2015.

  1. Rohit Mitra

    Rohit Mitra Timido

    Messages:
    4
    Gurgaon
    Linea 1.4
    Hi guys, my 2010 emotion pk 1.4 petrol has started burning engine oil like anything it drank close to 2 lt in 500 kms. Whatever oil was left has turned black (this was after a complete oil change with recomended 5w-40) shown the car to torque motor & drs motor gugaon & both confirmed the engine require a overhauling atleast the cylinder head needs to be changed the estimate is over 1 lakh, the car has a milage of 79k kms are they right or anyother possible & pocket friendly option is there... plz share your opion & advice
  2. pdash

    pdash Regolare

    Messages:
    382
    Bangalore
    Mahadevapura
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Is it still under extended warranty? if yes read the clauses to see if that helps.
    Write a mail to Fiat for good will warranty as 79K KM is very early age for an engine overhaul.
  3. Rohit Mitra

    Rohit Mitra Timido

    Messages:
    4
    Gurgaon
    Linea 1.4
    Hi pdash unluckly it is not under extended warranty although there is no visible drop in mileage/pick up & power only issues with engine oil, my fear is: it might be cut piston ring or small problem & I am been asked for a complete overhaul...
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,451
    delhi ncr
    @Rohit Mitra

    Hope you've been servicing it properly and on time over the last 5 years. The DRS guys esp the gm, Mr.Rawat, are pretty good and fairly trustworthy, or so have been our experiences, and so if he says so.....though more research about possible alternate causation is called for, no doubt. Am no expert on such affairs at all, though. You could pm @asimpleson , for eg. But you'd still be taking a fair risk, won't you, if you decide to follow a different 'course of treatment', even if you're convinced their 'remedy' is excessive.

    cheers, all the best.
  5. puntophile

    puntophile Amatore

    Messages:
    91
    Indirapuram NCR
    If there is no other unnatural behavior, it is probably piston rings bust as a result, oil is entering combustion chamber and igniting. You must consult with veterans, and not necessarily Linea owners. Head overhaul, might not be needed. If there are no "tappet" noises, or lack of grunt, it is probably still intact. You might want to speak to Mr.OP Sharma, who belongs to kashyap fiat, but is an old school gentleman, who normally gives honest advise outside of office. And yes, he knows his stuff well. No harm speaking to him: his telcall number is elsewhere in this forum. Nuff said, I only hope it wont be a head job and just piston rings.

    OT: {Regarding any ASS, they are equally good or bad: be it DRS or Torque or Oberoi or Kashyap or whatever Mr. Tom or Dick or harry.}If a ASS is good ONLY if you share a "good" relation, it is actually worse!
    prabhjot and asimpleson like this.
  6. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @prabhjot, @Rohit Mitra this is what I would do...
    If I am sure there are no lapses from my side, I would shoot an email to all Fiat officials whose email id I can get hold of till it gets channelized to the right person, area or zonal service in-charge of Fiat India. I would let them know how disappointing it is that so many 1.4s have been reported to be have trouble and would ask for a thorough investigation on this particular engine and massive discounts where-ever applicable. (I have seen heads opened on these Fire engines previously at various FASCs, although each engine could have received different treatment from owners, both good and bad, so won't be fair to generalize where and why these engines are having more issues). Also as @puntophile so aptly-concisely mentions about the general scenario and also a pretty good analysis about things possibly going wrong with engines which definitely ask for a more careful investigation of your particular one too. Since the car is out of warranty I would also search for a highly skilled engine work guy and take a quote. There are specialists in most Metros who specialize in engine rebuilds. You must find one such workshop. If it is much lower which is what will happen if you find the right person, you could end up spending just where needed and still have a reliable engine for years to come.

    Do post what you intend to do. Maybe we could suggest further.
    prabhjot and puntophile like this.
  7. puntophile

    puntophile Amatore

    Messages:
    91
    Indirapuram NCR
    What the OP didn't mention is how this was discovered. After a certain sequence of events or a random find. Can you tell us more...how it gradually came to this point or was sudden? Piston ring failures normally don't happen overnight....and cold crank/starts would "sound" a bit different,during the early morning first start and the smoke would smell a bit different too :) Performance would gradually decrease to outright unacceptable: its too late then. I guess you still have time...a compression check may be? To be all too sure. What say sir @asimpleson
  8. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @puntophile an isolated or undetected issue with cooling system is my best guess. Maybe the OP did not notice or will never find it in future too if such a thing ever happened given the state of things with SCs in India. The problem is with time and general secrecy with the way services or maintenance activities are carried out. Owner ends up paying bills and thinks things are hunky dory until he gets a sudden surprise. Like a heart blockage is generally detected and leaves people surprised since stress tests and blood levels and even frigging ECGs did not reflect those. Ever heard that happening around... :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2015 ---
    Also @puntophile using a thicker oil like say 20W50 and adding STP engine oil treatment additive and running the engine will give a better picture if problem goes down considerably. You never know the leaks (if subtle) could reduce and patch automatically to a larger extent, of-course that will also help buy time before an engine overhaul or head rework/replacement is ultimately needed. The only minor issue is fuel efficiency will reduce further. But that is least of an issue for now considering this problem which needs urgent attention.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2015
  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,451
    delhi ncr
    @Rohit Mitra

    There is a big risk if you decide to go with an alternate diagnosis and cure from a cheaper, outside mechanic/shop: how can you be sure? You cannot! So, as @puntophile suggests get in touch O P Sharma, the widely-regarded ustaad in delhi ncr, and then proceed. You may find, i suspect, that the better part of financial valour consists in getting this done at a FASS, preferably under Mr. Sharma, but since you're in Gurgaon, DRS is ok/worth betting-on too, while Torque is quite avoidable.

    @asimpleson You really think the FIRE engine has longterm durability issues in India? That would be news to someone like my father who's done 80000 odd kms, happily albeit sedately, on his Linea 1.4. You may be onto something/some statistical pattern, i don't have a large enough 'sample' of Fire-s I've heard of or seen or spoken/read about to say.
  10. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @prabhjot, off lately I also have a belief getting stronger by the day that OEM recommended oils and those used by SCs or sold in market leave a lot of problem areas unaddressed causing premature engine failures. Such statements will come under heavy fire and scrutiny because even though my observations and certain articles on the internet totally tally and make huge sense to me; unfortunately it is rather convenient for most to assume or widely believed that company engineers know better what they do. Which is true for the most part unless you can guarantee that corrupt practices do not occur in private industry. I am drawing these conclusions (also based on some unique experiences from past) that there is really no check to what the end user ends up using in their cars. A lot of false and misleading marketing practices, besides the adulteration or non-genuine in guise of genuine part of it. Could be applicable to most consumables, but oil worries me the most and you can see why. The problem is what seems clear and apparent to me could also be easily perceived to be paranoia by others. Therefore the lesser said the better. A topic that will need a lot of active debate with huge room for non-traditional beliefs and opinions to shatter old beliefs, if and where wrong. And of-course this is nothing like Newtonian discovery thing ;) but a timid fact finding if people are willing to humour others at the very least.

    To the main topic, it would be most prudent to say that and as you rightly noted I happened to see these engines worked upon more often than others and surprised by the fact that most owners found these suddenly without a hint. But again, there certainly will be those who have not an iota of issue with their cars and bigger Odo readings to declare. Again beyond scope of an individual to establish a pattern. Deserves a separate thread to call out and learn from those who had issues with their Fire engines, esp. on the Lineas. So the question remains and I humbly invite others to share observations of this nature if it has come to their notice. And have no doubts that even if an MIS of sorts has equipped company engineers to make these observations, it will certainly not be publicized but rather a silent move to train mechs. or improve or modify at the manufacturing or design level. After all what are the sales of these engines for company or its engineers to come under scrutiny or trouble. Remember Skoda did or was compelled to admit an issue with one particular engine component not a long time ago. And they are definitely in the better-than-the-lot category.
    prabhjot likes this.

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