Discussion in 'Electrical Systems' started by Chakra, Jun 1, 2010.
Maxtor I shared OP Sharmas number in the other Abs thread. Why don't you speak with him?
@speedjet - Thanks! Tried his no and finally got him on the line a few minutes ago. Told him the entire problem. He told me that Fiat warranty has not started at his workshop but give me the next steps regarding my problem. Since the car has a min 2 years warranty, he said that this is not the car owners problem and that Fiat should take care of it. That it could be one of the two problems only 1) Battery is faulty and some cell may be weak or 2) There is some electrical leakage problem.
To check option 1 another battery would need to be put to check whether that also drains out. If it does it is an electrical leakage problem. In that case the relay will need to be checked. Since all this was not done when I took it to the workshop the first time he said that I should write to Fiat. So that is what I am going to do now. This means the car may take some days to get repaired but what to do I have no option. I don't want to jump start it again and drive it all the way down and then go through hell while the workshop struggles indifferently with the issue which they see to have no idea about/ neither are they interested in knowing. If I try to explain like I did last time they don't listen. The problem with jump starting and driving is that there is a risk of the car stopping on the way like it happened the last time. In the middle of the highway everything shut off including the power steering. Thankfully I was able to steer it to the roadside without power and restart again since it was running for 30 minutes.
Let Fiat do the checking now. Sad that for so many problems I have to write to Fiat - I have done it before and they did intervene in some way but it is long and painful experience. Need patience and street savviness to sort out Fiat car issues. Living in India's capital I am facing such problems I pity those who have this car in smaller cities and non-metros.
Mr O P Sharma was very helpful. At least I got some direction as to what to do. I am gearing up for a long tryst with Fiat now - lets see how they sort it out.
---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 AM ----------
I have sent a complaint mail addressed to the service address and to one Mangesh whose name features in some of the complaint threads. If anyone else needs to be marked or any of you knows someone who can do something please do let me know. I am tired of repeat workshop visits and complaint emails each time there is a problem. Email usually means it will take days to get the issue/s fixed, drawing from my previous experience. On the other hand repeat workshop visit is ten times more frustrating.
Sent a letter also(pasted below) as I had decided I don't think there is any option. Irony is this is not the first email, so many lying in the Sent folder of my email account. I am grateful for speedjet's help and will truly appreciate any help from anyone. This forum has really been like a life-saver while owning a Fiat car.
I have Linea 1.4 emotion pack purchased in June 2010. On 3rd Oct the car would not start, the remote was not working either and no lights were switching on. The car runs everyday and and was running perfectly the previous day as well.
I called Roadside Assistance who helped me jump start the car. I took the car to ABS workshop in Gurgaon. The supervisor Satpal who came to check the car said that the person who checks the battery is off, so he told me to go out and get the battery checked. I told him that the battery was not very old and car warranty is also minimum 2 years so please check the electricals, relay etc - but he did not listen and just said go check the battery from somewhere else.
IF A CAR IN WARRANTY IS HAVING ANY ISSUE IT IS NOT MY PROBLEM IT IS YOURS .You should tell your workshops to take ownership of car issues under warranty having ANY issue. What is the use or meaning or warranty.
I felt completely harassed waiting there for 1 hour and no one was helping so I looked for Mr Malik who is the GM but I was told he has gone out. So I requested Ms Mamta who is CRM that someone look more thoroughly at the car's issue.She was totally disinterested and did not give a proper response even though I was requesting and pleading. Another supervisor who was also in the CRM's room Rajkumar finally came out to check and I related the possible faults again to him and to please check the car more thoroughly. I insisted and told him to check with proper tools. On my insistence he brought a portable computer gadget but it was not working . Contrary to what was told to me earlier about the workshops inability to check the battery, they actually had a multimeter available to check the battery and Rajkumar was able to check and even showed me the gravity which was low to prove that battery was discharged.
THIS COULD HAVE BEEN DONE WHEN THE FIRST SUPERVISOR WAS CHECKING INSTEAD OF ASKING ME TO GO GET IT CHECKED OUTSIDE. But this was not enough at all since I already knew that battery is getting discharged, so I again I insisted that please check electricals, please check the relay also please help me with checking thoroughly battery also , and the battery could not have gone down just like that etc. but he stuck to saying go and get the battery charged outside there's nothing we can do everything else is ok, WITHOUT EVEN CHECKING ANYTHING!. I pleaded in the workshop but no one cared they said go and charge your car battery, we cannot do anything. I felt hopeless and I left the workshop.
IS THIS HOW YOUR CUSTOMERS ARE TREATED AT YOUR WORKSHOPS?
They did not even open a job card which I believe is mandatory at all workshops of all car brands. So I have clicked a few photos on my my mobile phone and have attached them for proof of my visit. One is of Rajkumar checking the battery with a multimeter after I begged and pleaded for 1 hour. Second is the computer gadget which was not working and was thrown down. SINCE YOU ARE FIAT EMPLOYEES I ASK YOU IS THIS HOW YOU BEHAVE IN FRONT OF CUSTOMERS??
I came back to Delhi where I live with great difficulty and a high risk of accident with a partially charged battery and got the battery charged from Asija Batteries in Munirka where I paid Rs 250 for the mandatory 24-hour charging period and had to undergo the trouble of unscrewing it and physically taking the battery to the shop. However, next day again it did not start with no sign of battery life. The car has been lying idle since then.
As you see I have undergone so much of trouble and harassment due to faulty product that you are selling and your poor service. Your workshops are unfit for servicing or repairing anything. Your workshop staff are rude and unfit for public dealing or customer service.
Just a year ago I have bought LINEA 1.4 EMOTION pack the top end most expensive petrol vehicle you had in India at the time in good faith for Rs 8 lakh due to your promise of trouble free ownership and company warranty . It has not been trouble free at all since the time I bought it and I have faced mental agony and harassment at your workshops continuously. Believe me if there was even the smallest good thing to say about your service I would have done that in this mail but I am unable to. Previously, there have been so many issues in just a year including severe AC problems to gear changing cylinder sleeve issue, noise issues, so many I cannot repeat all of them in this mail. You should seriously compensate me for owning this low quality product with extreme poor service issues.
Kindly ensure that necessary steps are taken asap to fully check the battery, electricals and all systems in the faulty car to make sure that it is fully repaired and in drive able and working condition. Please treat as URGENT. I gave your wokshop a chance but they have failed, and they have failed not just this time but several times before also. In the past I have visited many of your workshops and they are all unsatisfactory.
I am available on xxxxxxx kindly contact me as soon as possible. Please respond immediately to my mail also so that I have a written record. It is highly unfortunate that I have had to write to you in past also but you take too much time to respond and for coordinating any action.
I hope Fiat respond to it. But finally the workshop guys needs to get serious.
if your battery is discharging in parked vehicle then it jolts down to 2 problems.
1. either some relay like the AC ones etc is stuck and causes electrical load and discharges the battery.
2. battery is kaput.
if you want to check the alternator you can use a multimeter and check the voltage across battery terminal with your car on in idling. it should be around 14 plus minus. if its around 12 or less then the alternator is bad.
however i dont think alternator is culprit here.
Response has come from Fiat, pasted below. I have been through this exercise(extremely unfortunate) before so I know that next some telecaller from Fiat Pune will call(-1-2 days) and ask for the same details of issue that I have already detailed in my complaint and then say we will fix an appointment(1-2 days) with the same ABS as above - so I'm waiting(3-4 days if not more). The only difference in case of complaint to Pune from my experiences is that at workshop a 'CRM' will come and stand in front of me with chalo-theek-hai-so-uv-complained-to-fiat-we-know-that-tho-kya-bigaad-loge kind of approach, no helpfulness or interest whatsoever to make up for it at all. Still will have to go through hell even after email complaint directly to Fiat. But now as a record will need to keep Fiat posted till the very end(if any) - helps for record as well as a legal follow up which I am sure many people must have resorted to. Will post on this thread also, great help here! Please keep giving your inputs, greatly appreciated.
Note the last few ironic copy-paste words in the mail - "BEAR WITH US"!! Bear with you for how much time, and how many times.?? NO I DON'T HAVE THE PATIENCE TO BEAR WITH YOU ANYMORE.
Thank you for your communication, we deeply regret the inconvenience caused to you with regards to concerns refereed.
Matter is coordinated with our distributor /dealer for update, you will be hearing shortly, till then we request to please bear with us.
With warm regards,
Fiat India Automobiles Ltd
Actually , that's a fairly standard e-mail reply from Fiat. I've seen the same mail in other places also. I am afraid that you will have to deal with the local A.S.S again.
SA did nothing wrong actually by asking you to get battery checked outside as warranty is provided by Manufacturer of the battery and not by Fiat/Tata and this is mentioned in Warranty terms and conditions of fiat also.
SA should have told you the complete procedure for diagnosing the problem transparently.
Exide would check the battery by charging it fully and measuring it's Specific gravity in fully charged state and would compare it with average readings of battery if its low than normal your battery is a goner.
A battery could fail even after a month too.Not all batteries manufactured have same tolerance levels even in the same batch
Whenever there is any problem in car starting first thing that is checked is Battery and if it is okay all other things are checked afterwards as battery is the thing which usually fails.
I hope you won't feel offended due to my post. I just want to let you know the procedure that is followed when such a problem is faced.
Once the battery is given green signal by manufacturer, alternator is checked and afterwards all wiring and electrical system is checked.
It depends upon ASS if they themselves take the battery to Manufacturer or ask the customer to do so.
Now that is a debatable point and I'll tell you why. Car comes with a warranty right? Car breaks down(anything possibly other than a tire puncture). Fiat HAS TO diagnose the problem themselves first and then tell the customer. Why should I diagnose it?
How do we know that it is a battery problem? Do customers keep a backup battery with them at all times like they keep a spare tyre. No, correct? Also, Fiat has a tie up with Exide for factory manufacture, I didn't ask Fiat to put an exide battery.
For a 8-lakh re car why can't they check the relay, at least rudimentary check of electricals, why the hell can't they check the battery at least when they have a multimeter and people available to check? I went to the ABS showroom also in my quest for some help and the guy who sold me the car(Ajay Narang) told me clearly that everyone in the workshop has the contact for the area for Exide and they can easily get the needful done. Do you know that big part/battery manufacturers have people assigned to large workshops - I hate to say this but ABS TataFiat is indeed a large(horrible like any of their) workshop
I will give an example here I hope you won't feel offended due to my post- If you have a servicing centre for some product on Panchkula Road and you have a customer walk in with some issue. At the time some staff of yours are off or maybe you are relaxing or some other reason whatever it is and you don't feel like attending to the customer and you tell the customer go we can't do anything this is some other issue not connected to our service centre. Does the customer have a choice?
Well my friend it is not so easy. If you have a service centre/workshop you need to take owner ship for product issues, AT LEAST diagnosing the issue, otherwise you should not be having the service centre. Or else, your product in the market will sell in 1 or 2 digits in a country of over 1 billion people with a middle class market of over 400 million people.
What Fiat or Tata is doing is making a ch.. out of people, thinking that you have already paid 8-lakhs why should we take the trouble. Nobody is bothered and BIGGEST of all no one is worried ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES. The CEO is making a ch out of Fiat in Italy by saying that we have sold so many thousand engines and now we are even exporting to Lanka - see the reports for profits made. So you own a Fiat - who cares.
Will the same type of incident happen in Maruti, Toyota or Honda. I doubt it will, why? Because they have service culture embedded in their philosophy, extensive training, Japanese discipline in management, production, service centres, I can go on and on. Most of all, and this is a key out cannot repeat cannot make a fool(ch..) out of the Japanese like you can make out of Italians Trust me I have travelled all over the world and know people from varied cultures which is what makes it more frustrating because I knew these things.
I now know that this will go on and on and there is a good chance that I may visit Fiat Pune because I am FED UP with issues. Take an appointment with the Fiat India CEO and have talk with him.
I invite anyone who thinks he is handling more than he should because of his Fiat car to come along.
I seriously feel that Fiat should compensate me for the last 15 months and a low quality faulty(sh***y actually) product. I have written some issues on this forum but who has the time to write every issue every week?
Btw, do you know how I fill petrol? I stand next to the attendant you know why? Because the fuel tank lid is faulty FROM THE BEGINNING EVEN AFTER 20 VISITS and I alongwith the petrol pump attendant push it and box it shut. Why do I do that? Because otherwise the fuel tank lid keeps flying in the air when the car moves.
And so which manufacturer should I contact for petrol tank lid?
Separate names with a comma.