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Half-Engine replacement needed. I am doomed.

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by puntofreak, May 15, 2015.

  1. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    205
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @puntofreak
    it is not that they did any wrong but a new oil Will not show leakage till it is run in for few km.as it goes thin after few running will start leaking from the defective point.
    before jumping to defective turbo conclusion please make conformation by connecting some data logging software to obd port and driving.pl check boost pressure on that.
    puntofreak and asimpleson like this.
  2. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @KKAUL, what is the impeller and other assembly masala labour costs. Also for VGT can the vanes be serviced or replaced. Any amount of information is welcome about turbo repair. I am assuming the kit involves bearings etc. And hopefully pre-assembly the impeller is balanced I assume.
  3. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    205
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @asimpleson

    Labour cost for repair will be negligible as compared to the core cost. Maybe not more than 500 inr because you are simply removing some bolts, replacing something and re tightening.
    As far as servicing of vanes is concerned FYI any type of repair is possible in Turbo be it it VGT or FGT but the problem is that you need a proper work shop to do that and most of the so called service center are devoid of that.Once you open the turbo it is very must that impeller be balance and the machine involved is damn costly involving microscopic projector and a small automatic arcing arm to compensate the weight. Then you need a proper training to do all this.
    It is very unfortunate that we lack all this in India. A turbo should never be even opened for servicing ,only full assembly be washed with diesel if you require anyday.
    Don't worry the VGT will not be that costly what is shown on 99 rpm but may be 50 % more expensive then FGT (though I did'nt inquired about the rate)
    Pre assembled core means the sub assembly inside the housing.It is assembled and balanced and made into single unit by the manufacturer as if he is not fitting into the turboshell and just selling it directly.The last operation will be fitting it inside the shell.
    You will wonder why not opt for that: The reason the handling needs to be delicate and will need a clean room to do the assembly.The bolt tightening will require proper Torque wrenches with manufacturer specified torque and most importantly the fixtures to hold the turbo.Usually what you will find a filthy work bench,a bench wise to hold turbo and spanners that too used more than 1000 times.I think I have made my point clear.
    The best way sell your old turbo and get a new one if ever need arises.
  4. puntofreak

    puntofreak Novizio

    Messages:
    39
    Odisha
    Bhubaneswar
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Here are some updates

    Yesterday I took the turbo to TEL service centre. They opened it. Intake side was neat and clean but exhaust side had dust particles (sand like substances) along with oil all around. Attached pictures will explain better. They are saying those particles are not iron. So how did this happen?

    According to TEL, during the previous engine work turbo line was not checked and cleaned. And engine head was also not cleaned. They are also saying if they install a new turbo without finding out the root cause the new turbo may also fail.

    What should I do now? I have been very polite with FASS. Now I think I have to change my language to deal with them.

    IMG_20151112_180440.jpg

    IMG_20151112_180519.jpg

    IMG_20151112_180550.jpg

    IMG_20151112_181643.jpg

    IMG_20151112_181700.jpg

    IMG_20151112_181741.jpg
    asimpleson likes this.
  5. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    205
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @puntofreak

    It is totally true whatever the TEL service guys are telling but I am really surprised how can FASS miss such things bcoz even a road side assembler will wash all the things in a diesel bath.
    It is very must that the reason for premature failure be diagnosed otherwise you will again end up in trouble.

    Please check your oil filter for same particles.

    It can be concluded by seeing the things that it was shoddy work done by the FASS which has lead to failure of turbo from turbine side.
    At the same time your earlier invoice shows that they have replaced the 16 valves that means they cleaned the head.
    All this mystery can be solved if you can post the picture of your earlier block damage with cylinder wall close up detail.

    1 thing is sure they never washed turbo line and turbo which they should have done.
    after reading your comment I think TEL guys are more professional.Also check for the warranty on new turbo.
    puntofreak likes this.
  6. puntofreak

    puntofreak Novizio

    Messages:
    39
    Odisha
    Bhubaneswar
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Today infront of me FASS guys checked engine oil for particles after completely removing it. They also checked oil filter. There was no presence of particles.

    Further I asked them to check inter cooler. There was some oil in it. They washed it.

    Do you think this oil came from turbo due to oilseal leak from compressor side? If so then this contaminated oil could have traveled into the combustion chamber with the air from intercooler. Is it possible? If it is so then the contaminated oil/dust particles can damage cylinders and other parts. How to check it?
  7. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @puntofreak, it is not uncommon for the intercooler to have some oil in it. Get the turbo fixed and sorted and change oil and oil filter sooner, like in 7.5 to 10k interval. Also clean the EGR and intake manifold etc. more proactively depending on your usage pattern. Get hold of a good Fiat mechanic who can perform it in front of you. FASS not all but most will do a half job or no job and bill you and you will find it too late if at all.

    Quality labour is depending on many factor including worker honesty and committment to work or management attitude and training and so forth.
  8. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    205
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @puntofreak

    What @asimpleson has mentioned about intercooler and oil change is totally correct but you are still confused with the presence of particle. Let me connect some dots maybe they are useful.

    When we insert a new valve in the head it usually does not match with the earlier seat so what is done as a general practice is lapping of seat with the new valve using different lapping paste (generally emery or diamond paste). May be the sand like particle you are mentioning is lapping paste which might have got logged in exhaust valve and then traveled to turbo due to pressure.

    Another theory
    These particle were in the turbo line from the earlier damaged engine may be the carbon deposit on the piston with particles of damaged cylinder. Since the engine was not able to generate enough pressure to make turbo run, These particle were logged in the pipe line and when new engine block was installed the compression was full to move these particle to the turbo hence led to damage.

    The zero particle presence in oil and oil filter indicates that the particles were in the exhaust line and at no point have entered the chamber or intake line so I think you need not to worry on cylinder health.

    I have tried to debug this to the best of my ability rest only Fass mechanics can tell the truth if they really intend to.Pursue them to reveal the truth about head cleaning turbo line cleaning etc so that you do not suffer more.
    Any other detail you are always welcome
    You indeed have suffered a lot.
    puntofreak likes this.
  9. puntofreak

    puntofreak Novizio

    Messages:
    39
    Odisha
    Bhubaneswar
    Grande Punto 1.3
    All done. Car is back to normal. Have already driven around 100 kms, no issues. Thank you all for your support and a special thank to KKAUL.

    After the recent work, the FIAT dealer has asked me to exchange this car with Aventura. But I have denied as I donot want to take another burden of around 9 lac though he is offering me 3.5 lac exchange value for my car.
  10. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    205
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Good to hear that your car is back.
    Would appreciate if you could update the course of action taken and amount spent.
    It would be of great help to other members.

    You have almost replaced all the part for which we assume long life while buying a new car so your decision is right now of not selling it.
    all the best

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