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Half-Engine replacement needed. I am doomed.

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by puntofreak, May 15, 2015.

  1. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    204
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @vIjAy_kHaSa

    You have just confused me because as per me the car should not start if the eprom and the glow plug control module on the injectors is hard coded for cylinder no. because the hex code if not matched will throw a error straight away.
    I did check with one of the Guy and he confirmed me the same . Now really I need to check with the hard code data logger person and need to check thoroughly. Though he does'nt reveal the details to any one but I think he will share it with me lets see.
    Second point of cold start totally agree that it will emit smoke no denial on fact but white in color still confusing because last when I was driving a vehicle of different make in colder climate and at altitude 3800 mts was emitting small black smoke with unburnt fuel due to improper combustion on steep climb.

    Since you said you have experienced so it cannot be challenged but need to be studied.
    White smoke if because of diesel is caused when we spray the cold diesel on a hot surface not in pressurized manner but in droplets.
    I encounter these colored smoke problem everyday because I use many high pressure Diesel burner more or less with same concept with different nozzle setup with less amount of electronics all make danfoss and siemens.

    As far as injector servicing is concerned I am again confused with the word servicing. By servicing do you mean changing of the front nozzle part or cleaning up the clogged nozzle please specify.
    Also please mention what do you mean by codes.Are you refering to the injector indentification details or the handshake program on the injectors.As per my knowledge the injector program code cannot be altered unless you have the machine to write the chip on the injector.
    I have read your many post and seen that you are one of the few intelligent man on this forum who follow the problems and their solution judiciously may be its your interest or profession. I even read your ignition Lock barrel repair post and video and was surprised to see the amount of repair people are capable of. OTT The barrel with brasslock plate assembly is bought for less than 50 Inr from the manufacturer and without plate and spring will cost you mere 4 inr and see at what price they sell.
    I request you to take my post in a positive spirit and do not think that I want to prove any point.I am just a keen learner.
    vIjAy_kHaSa likes this.
  2. vIjAy_kHaSa

    vIjAy_kHaSa Esperto

    Messages:
    1,352
    Panchkula
    Injector only have 2 electrical contacts(probably 12v permanent supply and variable voltage to alter spray time) through which ECU operates the working of injector if ECU had any way of checking IMA codes of injector there would have been no need of storing them in ECU it could have changed them automatically when the need arise.
    Even I was of the opinion unburnt fuel will emit black smoke but real life experience is otherwise.

    By servicing I meant valves and other parts inside the injectors were replaced and ultrasonic cleaning of nozzles.
    By injector code I meant IMA Identification code of injectors stamped on its body.
    Be rest assured I take all posts in positive spirit, this is a forum everyday one gets to know or learn something new.
    mangeshtendulkar and KKAUL like this.
  3. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    204
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Purely my point:
    You entered the identification code on the ECU so that the diesel flow module or the Fuel control module can refer the lookup table for the particular injector default data supplied by the manufacturer and compare it with current sensor data so as to adjust the control index nothing else that means bosch is supplying old gen injectors without cyl. hard coding.
    But when you replaced parts in the injectors then default data changes as per the parts and hence is of very little use so it is left to ECU to calculate the new values according to your driving and store them.
    Just try it once if you get somebody in similar situation of injector swapping. Unplug both the battery terminal and shot them after few seconds and keep disconnected for 5 minutes.Plug it and without entering the injector codes drive for 1K km and see if there is any smoke.The first 1K km would be coarse or smoky but next will have no prob.
    The shorting will discharge the capacitor there by stored last values.
    I will check the bosch model punto is using in india an will update the detail once done
  4. puntofreak

    puntofreak Novizio

    Messages:
    39
    Odisha
    Bhubaneswar
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Another shock. As per FASS culprit is turbo for this white smoke and oil leakage from exhaust. They have quoted a turbo repair cost of around 16k. Do not know which part they want to repair, I will check detail with them tomorrow.

    FASS did not diagnose the problem in my car properly before the engine replacement otherwise they would have come to know about turbo problem. I would have sold the car without repairing and spending huge. I do not know how much I have to spend further.....Will never buy a second hand car in future.....

    I know there is no point in fighting with FASS. I have to spend. Only thing is a new turbo or repair existing. 99rpm is showing around 21k for new turbo. Do not know how can they quote 16k for repair.
  5. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    204
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @puntofreak

    Now this is really Frustrating part from the Fass. Without even diagnosing the engine premature failure they just want to make fast bucks at owners cost.
    I inquired you before whether you were facing any drop in oil or coolant level and you said no.If they are saying turbo is at fault then engine oil level should drop.
    Just follow the steps
    Please visit the link
    http://www.turboenergy.co.in/after-market-support/authorised-service-center.html
    select your state and city and find the authorized Turbo Repair work shop of the manufacturer and get it checked there no need of fass.
    and if you need to buy a new one again buy from their distributor in Orissa it should not cost more than 13K for a new FGT and for repair not more than 4K max. Prices are old but must have not changed that much.
    Right now there are some holidays so please don't be in haste and take your car back from FASS and do confirm what comments vijay_khasa has written about his experience about injector IMA code so do verify that with FASS in your presence before hand.
    I will try to get the exact price in Delhi.
    Don't panic and drive less
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 10, 2015, Original Post Date: Nov 10, 2015 ---
    @puntofreak

    The cost of new turbo confirmed is 9600 all discounted price and for replacing the whole core keeping your existing housing is 6600 all discounted.All I have assumed is FGT 1.3 multijet 75 hp
    Do not in any case go for turbo seal repair.Had a detailed chat with TEL service guy and said that no body in india has balancing machine for turbo repair so go for complete core replacement that is pre assembled from company.If you wish to go for turbo repair. Hope this much of inf is enough for you to decide.
    If you want the detail of turbo seal and other replacement technique I can write but will be of no use to you so better go this way if turbo is at fault.
    All price are of Delhi. For orissa may be 10% higher
  6. puntofreak

    puntofreak Novizio

    Messages:
    39
    Odisha
    Bhubaneswar
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Thank you so much for your help. I wish FASS to be as knowledgeable and supportive like you.

    I just spoke to the TEL service here in Bhubaneswar. They are asking for the part number to confirm rate and availability (for FGT 1.3 multijet 75 hp). I have asked FASS to check and provide it. Will update you soon.
  7. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    204
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @puntofreak

    Sorry I forgot to mention the part no.

    The TEL part no. are
    54359700006 FGT complete MRP 12400 after discount 9600
    3535922302 FGT core (impeller assembly) MRP 8400 6600 after discount
    54359700014 VGT complete

    Please mail them the picture of your FGT on whats app to avoid any confusion.

    I have given the part no. to best of my knowledge please do reconfirm with them.

    Do not loose hope that you bought a wrong vehicle but no offence meant you spent a lot and were trusting people blindly.That is not your fault but the quality of we Indians " How to cheat other to make profit for ourselves" I am not that type

    The day I find time I will open up this remapping tech affair (again to the best of my ability) also so that everybody is capable of doing it and the best mind should survive.

    I hope this detail is enough
    puntofreak likes this.
  8. puntofreak

    puntofreak Novizio

    Messages:
    39
    Odisha
    Bhubaneswar
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Yes I have confirmed. The TEL part no. is
    54359700006 and MRP is 12600 here.

    3535922302 FGT core (impeller assembly) as mentioned by you is a part of above or I have to get this in additional? One Fiat mechanic was mentioning about the problem in the turbo core. Do you think only replacing this will solve the issue.

    Anyways I will check and confirm with TEL and buy a new one. I am not in favour of repair.
  9. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    204
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    You are bang on that I mean just replace it with a new turbo.
    Leave the old one and do not repair you can easily sell it at 1000 bucks and install a brand new.
    Repair is a delicate part and needs a lot of patience even if it is preassembled core and you need skill and tools which you seldomly find in new generation people.
    Go for a new one.
    The turbo has 2 part one is the housing(outer body)
    second is the core (the impeller and the compressor fan assembly) the moving part inside the housing.
    Better replace full turbo as I am not convinced with repair in India.
    THis is my opinion rest your decision.
    All the best.
    BUt did you check what vijay khasa had written
    puntofreak likes this.
  10. puntofreak

    puntofreak Novizio

    Messages:
    39
    Odisha
    Bhubaneswar
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Ya cheeked, I mean asked FASS about it. They said they had already checked no issues.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 10, 2015, Original Post Date: Nov 10, 2015 ---
    One thing is troubling me. After the engine work I drove my car for around 800 kms without any issue. Howcome suddenly it started emitting white smoke without any performance issues.

    When I checked it at FASS they cleaned injector, turbo and inter cooler and refitted. After that oil started leaking from exhaust and below the engine compartment. Did they do something wrong? I'm afraid if my car would be fine even after turbo replacement.

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