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GNCAP Rating for Indian Cars

Discussion in 'Non FIAT Cars and two wheelers' started by selwyn.a, May 17, 2016.

  1. selwyn.a

    selwyn.a Amatore

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    KA51
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    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2016
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  2. selwyn.a

    selwyn.a Amatore

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    @mods , I don't believe I have called out any brand in the thread title. Sorry if you found it inappropriate, but I strongly believe we need to raise awareness of the pathetic structural strength that manufacturers are currently pushing on the Indian market, especially since the same manufacturers have different standards in other countries.
    prabhjot and Murphy_Fiat like this.
  3. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

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    Bangalore
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    Only the thread title edited. The note was a reminder to members that a healthy discussion is the need of the hour without foul mouthing any product/manufacturer. It was not intended at you at all. :)
    selwyn.a, prabhjot and dadasaheb like this.
  4. Tornado

    Tornado Superiore

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    677
    Driver's seat.
    Western Maharashtra
    Avventura 1.3 90 HP
    But why fiat has not sent its car models for these tests?
  5. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

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    1,900
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    Manufacturers have sent the cars. In fact its the GNCAP organisation bought the cars and then tested it.
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    2,444
    delhi ncr
    NCAP is a commercial, corrupt organization, with a sordid history. They're trying to 'make a market' for themselves, by becoming the gatekeepers on safety in a bakra-of-a-car-culture like India's with no safety or engineering care or knowledge at all (on average.)

    The car manufacturers do not mind this supposed 'bad press', these 'revelations'. India is not the first market where this racket's been perpetrated. In the medium-run they'll just add more 'safety features' (visible and claimed, like supposed high strength steel etc) and will just charge more.

    This is a public policy issue, and a notably more complicated one than just govt-mandating crash-safety standards. For eg: 9/10 accident victims in India are NOT car/van/bus passengers but pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists.

    IMO the government must (a) levy a tax on every car maker and car-buyer: JUST for fiancicng a BIG and LOUD and WIDESPREAD automotive+traffic education programin the media, at dealerships, on the net and in schools and colleges+digital-road-signage (b) ramp up traffic POLICING hugely, clamp down on all 4-wheel-driver/owners who are individually and collectively diabolical in their contempt for other road users, esp pedestrians and 2-wheeler owners (c) create separate bike and motorbike lanes, and pedestrian-safety features (pavements, lots of speed breakers etc)

    I do not see why the govt must mandate crash safety for ALL, even low-price, car buyers, esp not IF instead they're clearly informed about the relative or absolute un-safety of the cars they buy. The manufacturers are not guilty IF the car buyer has NO illusions, given that on the engineering front (as a whole, let alone safety aspects only) most car buyers in India are incapable of meeting the caveat emptor (buyer beware!) principle on which the market runs.

    But there must be a clampdown on misleading, indeed outright-lying advertising (as for eg from Hyundai, Honda and VW).

    Engineering restrictions in India are indeed in urgent need of establishment but imo NOT on the crash-safety front but instead on: emissions, brakes+tyre-spec, steering systems, and some, high-minimum ride-handling standards (torsional rigidity, suspension specs etc).

    Indian market cars are WAY behind on these truly elementary aspects, with too many buyers oblivious of the fact, obsessed instead with reliability, after sales, resale, looks and gizmos.

    Crash safety stuff should be incentivized in some way, BUT cannot be made compulsory in India, at least not across price points (i.e., not in the a- and b- and/or c1 segments), else the market will get destroyed completely?

    In any case, the govt must (will?) devise its own crash-safety tests, and not rely on this crooked organization (NCAP).

    Me feels the govt must first wake up to the basic scamming that they're encouraging the car firms (esp Maruti, Hyundai, Mahindra and Honda: the dominant firms!) to perpetrate: of gross under-engineering of steering, braking and chassis+suspensions (and emissions+fuel efficiency) long before they think of mandating even 3 star euro NCAP standards.

    IF 8.5 or 9+/10 crash victims are NOT car drivers or passengers, then the real emergency in India is NOT crash safety of cars.

    Each such mandate/regulation increases costs and potentially: prices. The govt must therefore choose and prioritize, else they will end up destroying the market altogether while actually achieving very little in the public-good. IMO crash safety is the totally wrong priority. Crash safety should be left to the marketplace, with constant public education that India-market cars are NOT always or necessarily safe, period. Too many Indian car and SUV users think they're invulnerable: cars ARE dangerous, for oneself and for others, period.

    Mod Note: Please do not type like this... Kindly check the spelling and grammer before posting. Kindly refer to the TFI rules here Thanks!
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2016
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  7. SwifttoPunto

    SwifttoPunto Novizio

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    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    @prabhjot
    I completely agree with your comments. NCAP testing is completely a commercial idea and nothing more. Especially in India it is completely impractical. But that does not mean I support manufacturers introducing all compromised and India specific vehicles with less R&D cost.
    We see more high-end cars or commercial vehicles driven recklessly (many times drunk drivers) and causing more deaths/injuries to innocent people than regular cars. Even if NCAP testing made compulsory, manufacturers will make changes to comply with that at some extra price increase of vehicles, but that does not make cars safe and in India neither public safe.
    prabhjot likes this.
  8. selwyn.a

    selwyn.a Amatore

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    84
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    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    Then the question arises : how do you know how safe your car is? Be it NCAP or some other organization, definitely there has to be a 3rd party to test and certify your car's safety. As @prabhjot mentioned, the govt must introduce it's own safety organization and standards.

    I agree it's not an absolutely necessity for the govt. to mandate crash safety equipment in all cars. But crash testing should be made compulsory for every make and model in the country, to ensure that car buyers are fully aware of how far their car is capable of protecting them in a crash, and they will drive with due precaution.
    Also, by not mandating safety equipment, the onus is on the manufacturers to ensure that their cars pass the test while keeping price rises in check.
    prabhjot likes this.
  9. SwifttoPunto

    SwifttoPunto Novizio

    Messages:
    47
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
  10. selwyn.a

    selwyn.a Amatore

    Messages:
    84
    KA51
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    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    They are 2 different things : Euro NCAP, and "Certified for Legal Sale"

    From Wiki:
    Testing is not mandatory, with vehicle models either being independently chosen by Euro NCAP or voluntarily tested by the manufacturers.[9] In Europe, new cars are certified as legal for sale under the Whole Vehicle Type Approval regimen that differs from Euro NCAP. According to Euro NCAP,[10] "The frontal and side impact crash tests used by Euro NCAP are based on those used in European legislation. However, much higher performance requirements are used by Euro NCAP. The frontal impact speed used by Euro NCAP is 64 km/h compared 56 km/h for legislation." Euro NCAP also states that "Legislation sets a minimum compulsory standard whilst Euro NCAP is concerned with best possible current practice. Progress with vehicle safety legislation can be slow, particularly as all EU Member States’ views have to be taken into account. Also, once in place, legislation provides no further incentive to improve, whereas Euro NCAP provides a continuing incentive by regularly enhancing its assessment procedures to stimulate further improvements in vehicle safety.

    But as per the Maruti chairman, apparently he does not believe we can do 60+kmph on Indian roads, or that people drive Maruti cars on highways. Neither does he believe in publishing any kind of test results for 56kmph crashes.
    prabhjot and carl_jhonson like this.

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