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Fiats future in INDIA- A buyer, enthusiasts, Car Analyzers view.

Discussion in 'Car Purchase Queries' started by BoseSuman, May 5, 2012.

  1. BoseSuman

    BoseSuman Superiore

    Midnapur (W.B) & Hyderabad (A.P) India.
    Linea 1.3
    Hi All,</SPAN>
    After being a member of Team Fiat & following almost all forum of Team BHP (from last 4 years) I am writing this article about Car, Buyers thought, sellers thought, general market thought etc.</SPAN>
    Firstly I have seen that most of us don’t think that Car is a mechanical machine & built by us (human being). We have different segment for car to match buyer’s requirement. Again, we think Car should be represented as showcase product as well as big fuel efficient ( Kitna deti hai) with big size engine.</SPAN>
    Indian Scenario: - 90% car sold and will be selling 10L or below 10L.</SPAN>
    I am writing this as question raised on my mind</SPAN>
    Just I read the article in Team BHP as Fiat revs away from Tata Dealership & will set up its own distribution network. I am reading this forum almost every day and have very good respect for this forum.</SPAN>
    Thought a good article to read that (Many of Team Fiat members also member of Team BHP and they may agree with me), somehow it changed as Fiat bashing thread as I read other post. As I am not a member of Team BHP not able to post this article & share my thought there. My Team fiat friend (who also member of Team BHP) can post this article on behalf of me in Team BHP.</SPAN>
    I have seen there lots of folks cribbing Fiat for stopping there JV with TATA, they told its pathetic move, someone wrote there Fiat can stop business and get lost from India. Most of these guys always cribbing Fiat for TATA service. They told Fiat has provided 2 beautiful products as Linea & Punto, but due to Tata service it’s failing in India. Now they are cribbing Fiat for this move.</SPAN>
    Now is the real story.</SPAN>
    Fiat is a Global Car maker and producing lots of Good Product all over the world. Fiat may have strategy to sell good car in India. If we want all facilities in Punto with I10’s price and Linea with Dezire’s Price is that possible?</SPAN>
    I have seen most of folks are asking for Dodge, Chrysler range, including Jeep & Alfa Romeo cars. Do they have idea what are the segment of this </SPAN>car and how many folks will buy this. Do they know what the engine sizes of these cars are and how many folks will buy the same in India? Where in India 90% car buyer ranges exists below 10L price of Car.</SPAN>
    Why I am comparing this, because I am in USA now and can see the difference, this is my 3 trip to USA and have seen lots of Cars here. </SPAN>
    Example: - You can buy a Brand new Civic or Chevy Cruze in 20000-25000 USD, which is compare to 10L to 12.5L price compare to India. Now if you want to buy these same cars in India you have to pay 17-19L OTR .You are getting this car with good quality (same as here) in India with much more higher price.</SPAN>
    Best example is BMW760Li:- you will get this car in USA at 136600 (Indian rupees- 6830000 INR near about 69L). In India its Price is 1,29,00,000 ( 1 Cr 29 L) This is ex show room price. </SPAN>
    We are getting this same car with same quality with whooping price. Do ever we asked them why BMW is selling Car in USA so less price and in India so high Price, no never. BMW has a strategy to sell their car to meet their profit margin, so to match their profit margin they are selling BMW with high Price in India (Import duty also included here). </SPAN>
    Now come to the main context: - Do Fiat need to Introduce these car from USA market to India to survive in Sales chart. A Big No. These cars can be introduced in India for those 10% buyer. If Fiat will bring new product in India as mentioned no car will not be less than 15L in India. How many folks from 90% will buy this car (merely a few will buy)?</SPAN>
    I am surprising that everyone is asking for 1.6-1.9 L MJD in Fiat Linea with BMW like interior, do they know what will be cost of that. Can these will be preferred by mentioned 90% Indian buyer to buy, simply no. Then How Fiat will survive in Indian Market, They have some strategy to survive, that is the reason they are separating from TATA. They are not full dumb. They has learned from past and making changes periodically to meet expectations, we can’t ask that Fiat sales will be like Maruti Alto in 1 month. Alto took lots of time to gain this spot, we have to give time to fiat to.</SPAN>
    Fiat has responded Market quickly, How many folks know that NHV level has reduced in 1.3 MJD and now it’s as peppy as Swift 1.3 DDIS (not same but very near).</SPAN>
    4 people like this.
  2. pioneeraaron

    pioneeraaron Superiore

    I dont wanna make this a tbhp bashing thread.Those guys have never respected FIAT nor any good move made by FIAT.All they crib is about the underpowered engine and the interiors.They have all the praises for Honda's,hyundai's,suzuki's etc etc.They love to bash FIAT as if it's in their blood & and they ban everyone who acts against them or so called a "fiat fanboy"

    FIAT has some great plans so they have ventured out and taken this move.I really respect this move and hope to see dedicated Sales and Service as soon as possible!!FIAT doesnt wanna see a Manza 1.6 or SX4 1.6 or a Swift 1.6 DDis topping the sales chart.And due to tax brackets FIAT is sticking to 1.3mjd for now.So its just a wait and watch game.Lets hope for the best!!

  3. Joseph

    Joseph Novizio

    Well done FIAT is what I have to say. Indeed a great move. I had an experience with a dealer who asked to me to prefer the Indica Vista over the Punto as it had the same engine and was easy to maintain than the Punto. After that I had bought my Punto from another dealer as I felt that the former was not interested in selling the FIATs. I had bought my car as I loved the Punto right from launch and was determined to own one. But the common man would certainly shove off from the Punto and definitely would not prefer the Vista and would end up buying a Swift or Figo. So lets have a showroom for FIAT alone. I dont feel like that they should kill the name FIAT as suggested in some other forums and bring on the Alfas and Chryslers to do better business in India. The Lineas and Puntos alone marketed properly with a rather good after sales support can do wonders in the Indian market.


    FIAT Punto 1.3 MJD
    Maruti Esteem Carb version
    Royal Enfield Bullet 1993
    HH CBZ 2001
  4. amit

    amit Superiore

    Navi Mumbai
    I agree with this point.

    No one wants a Punto at i10 prices and Linea at Dzire prices. For the price Fiat is selling these car's they do fall short on interior fit & finish and engine & gearbox performance. Take the price you are asking for the car but give us a car that befits the price you are asking for it. That's all that the majority of buyer's are asking.

    Please understand that unlike the western countrie's, in India you can never do sustained high speeds. The criteria for judging a car's peppiness or pick up or power in India is in the vehicle's ability to pick up speed at slow city speeds. This is where Fiat fails. To add to it, even a i10 can do 120kmph easily all day and that is the best you can do on Indian highway's. The discerning car buyer will notice Linea's high speed superiority over a Verna's even at 120kmph but how many people are educated or discerning enough.

    Fiat's have the best steering but Indian's feel a heavy steering is bad. The earlier generation equates the Punto & Linea's steering to non-power assisted Premier Padmini's and the current generation grew up on the 'zip zap zoom' steering of the Santro. Chevrolet released an advt claiming how smooth the Beat's power steering is giving you the ability to 'zip zap zoom' through traffic.

    Civic's & Corolla's are car's first time car buyer's buy in USA. 99% of driving school's have a Civic or Corolla as their car.

    The reason BWM sells the 7 series at the price it does in USA is due to lower taxes and more volumes. How many 7 series are sold in USA and how many in India? When India reaches the volumes of USA, we will also get cars at lower prices.

    The entire segment has moved onto 1.5 & 1.6L diesel engines. Take a look at the Vento 1.6 TDI with the interior's it has or the Verna with it's 1.6L CRDi with the interior's it sports, why can't Fiat do the same? No one wants BMW type interior's, give us the same interior's you have here just execute the fit , finish and quality better, that's all we are asking.
    Last edited: May 6, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  5. sungoa2010


    Vento need 1.6 because they don't have anything decent to pull it. It will be awkward if they fit the 3 cylinder on vento. Verna's is a different story. Verna survive on raw power. They don't have anything else to come to main front. 1.3 MJD is a enough to satisfy the needs of indian road condition. But the fact that we like to have more powerful 1.6 MJD is a different story.

    The indian car market run by 'fear management'. This is my observation people may not agree on it. People think "I don't want to take risk, let me choose the safest option"
    If people were really concerned about the value for the product for the money they pay, many cars will not enjoy the market share that they hold now.
  6. puntojith


    Good decision to go alone.

    I was following this particular thread in TBHP you have mentioned. It struck me how much vilification somebody could do to a car company! There were posts demanding that Fiat should leave India et al as if they carried some sort of personal grudge or vengeance.
    People being people, I believe that Fiat itself is responsible for this negative brand image. The company's ambivalence w r t expansion plans in India until now automatically created doubts about Fiats intentions amongst consumers.
    Its good to hear that the company has finally decided to take the leap like the other european players who have already reaped the benefits of taking bold decisions.
    Fiat needs to understand that having great products alone is not enough. The product needs to be branded, packaged and supported well for it to sell well, atleast in India. If it has sold cars here, the credit should go only to their product developers, starting from the designers to the floor mechanics and nobody thereafter.

  7. BoseSuman

    BoseSuman Superiore

    Midnapur (W.B) & Hyderabad (A.P) India.
    Linea 1.3

    Very True & agree with you for interior fit & finish of punto & linea. Fiat has to give good interior fit & finish, there is no doubt abot that.

    For Civic & Corolla You got my point what I mean to say. In USA you can get these easily, but in India how may afford these ( 18 L buyer you will get in 10% and from other 90% merely 5% can stretch their budget to get these. But what about other 85 to 90% buyer those are buying below 10L Car. My point is if Fiat will bring these new car to get good result in sales chart that will not really help them. Fiat need to refresh Punto & Linea, need to bring refreshed Palio, small car to fill the requirement for these 90% Indian buyer. That will really help in sales chart. Dodge, Chrysler,Jeep & Alfa Romeo cars can give Fiat a Nice Brand image in India, these will not help Fiat in Sales chart to comeback in boom.

    for 1.6 MJD, that is every ones need here for linea. But think, they may have different strategy not to supply this to Maruti & Tata. Otherwise 1.6 Manza & 1.6 Dezire will slow Linea's sale. Indeed Linea need 1.6 MJD VGT than 1.3 to fill these 90% buyers need, and if this will be priced range below 12 L OTR, atleast they can stretch their budget to buy this. Why Fiat India is not giving good Interior they are using same vendor from TATA, this is the main reason. Once JV will completely stop we can assume these vendor will also go, and hope for good interior with same design as VW is providing good interior from Indian vendor.

    ---------- Post added at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

    I am not a member in Team Bhp, else I have posted the same thread there. We never disrespect other Car.
    You Know one Proverb " No one are perfect in this world except God". Every Car has negetive & positive. Fiat also has lots of negetive, that doesn't mean every one has to bash Fiat every time.
    I have Fiat that doen't mean I have to hate & bash blindly other Car. Skoda also has bad after sales & service as VW is making fool indian buyer with 3 pot 1.2 diesel engine with whooping nearly 8.5L. That doesn't mean I have to hate & bash VW & Skoda and tell them to stop their business & leave India. They can improve these area and give us good VW & Skoda car ( below 10L), that is every Indian buyer wants, same for Fiat too.

    Fiat has lots of wrong move that every one agree, when they tried to listen Indian Buyer and replicate the same again their decision was bashed by most.
    This is the oppertuinity what we can demand and hope for Fiat they will stop local vendor from Tata and will allow new vendor for providing good quality Interior parts.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  8. theblack

    theblack Esperto

    When the whole world of automotive industries are going for smaller and smaller engines I dont understand why we need 1.6 or 1.<whatever>
    Like "Amit" put it, make any product a VFM.
    With indian mentality of course even a ferrari which would cost 1Crore RS would still feel a NO VFM proposition( that's a different story).

    Secondly its just not possible to compare brands and cars between different markets..
    There are a lot of things that contribute in analyzing what is needed and what will be accepted in different parts of the world.

    In a country where sentiments rule every decision any brand needs to thread carefully... We have opposition for everything here and we only have opposition no constructive criticism that is the do all and end all of things here.

    Why is Maruthi the best selling brand in india? Why is suzuki not even heard of in the european countries and US?
    We dont care about anything unless its cheap.. So we get cheap stuff only..

    If a car in india is sold with ABS as an option and sells at 6L , the same variant without ABS sells at 4L, Stupid people here say, We dont need ABS it does not work and buy the 4L one... in the end they drive just as fast as the guys who buys a 6L (becuase he knows what ABS can do).. They one fine day he runs into a tree and its a huge news saying that the brands dont give quality product..
    Such is the mentality here.

    IMO if FIAT just sticks to punto/linea and starts working on other things like sales, services, Quality of products . I think this in itself is going to make FIAT 2nd in India.
    Do they think about this?, I dont know
  9. Tony

    Tony Esperto

    Kalamboli, Navi Mumbai
    Grande Punto 1.2
    Before getting the Jeep/Alfa. FIAt should get the small car ASAP, which they were talking long back with the small engine.
    As the Festive season is on the move FIAT -INDIA should act soon and get the Sales & Service outlets soon with the launch of the small car below 1000 cc,
    If Marketing and the A.S.S. are improved then i thing these two gems (Punto/Linea) will work wonders.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2012
  10. VahanPujari

    VahanPujari Staff Member Janitor

    Whatever steps Fiat has taken, it has not worked till now. Fiat has ignored one of the most important item of marketing. Unless Fiat starts marketing extremely aggressively, it won't get the desired results. Marketing coupled with shipping niggle free cars is the first step it should take. See how Nissan with a very limited network sells decent number of Micra's, how aggressively has it marketed it with flurry of ads.

    Fiat has to connect with the customers to ensure that it is somewhere there in buyer's mind, if not in top of mind.
    1 person likes this.

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