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Fiat Palio S10 Engine Breakdown

Discussion in 'Classic and Retro FIAT's' started by arnab1972, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. Dear All,

    No solution from FIAPL and Fiat Italy till date.

    There is no news of arrangement of replacement Engine which could have been the best solution.
  2. drifter

    drifter Regolare

    At 79,000km the engine has more than a long life in it.

    Is it possible to get some pictures of the valves and the pistons aas well as the cylinder head.

    As Karthik stated it is rather odd that 4 pistons go and only 2 valves.

    What is not clear from your description is whether timing belt tensioner has been changed too.

    One other possibility is that the garage fitted too hot spark plugs, which can lead to severe damage. But some pictures of the pistons would give some ideas.
  3. Hello Drifter,

    Thanks for your post.

    The timing Belt and tensioner has all been replaced during August 2009.

    Please find attached all Service Invoices for ready reference.

    I will try to take pictures if possible.

    Please find below latest communication with Fiat Group and Tata Motors.


    Navi Mumbai

    From: Arnab Bagchi
    Sent: 19 November 2010 13:28
    To: 'manoj.bhaskaran@tatamotors.com'
    Cc: Mangesh.Kodalkar@fiapl.com; abhijeet.p@tatamotors.com; rajendra.desai@tatamotors.com; 'Ricky.Walter@fiapl.com'; 'rajeev.kapoor@fiapl.com'; 'ceodesk@fiapl.com'; 'Sergio.Marchionne@fiatgroup.com'; 'Andrea.Formica@fiat.com'; 'Lorenzo.Sistino@fiat.com'; 'service@fiapl.com'; 'TRASENTE Ida (FGA)'; 'CUSTOMERCARE INTERNATIONAL (FGA)'
    Subject: FW: Mr Arnab - Fiat Palio 1.6 - Pandit Akurdi-FIAT Customer Care International - Ticket N° #31827884#

    Hello Mr. Manoj Bhaskaran,

    Thanks for your reply and proposal after more than a month.

    A) I have already pointed out that I have tried to maintain the vehicle by undergoing servicing as and when required through Fiat Authorized Service Centre. The attached Invoices are the proof of the same.

    It is assumed that all Fiat Authorized Service Centres are having sound Technical persons to advise and handle any problem in Fiat Vehicles. But nobody could able to predict any foreseen problem in the Engine during the last servicing done on September 2010.

    If I assume that six months or 5000 Km. is the maximum guarantee after servicing through a Fiat authorized Service Centre, for a vehicle to run safely and problem free, has been proven wrong and we both should thank God that nothing fatal happened to all the passengers on the Pune Express Highway. Hence Fiat Authorized Service Centre has completely failed to ensure Vehicle and passenger safety within this period.

    The exact reason for breakage of valves is still unknown and no Technical Persons from FIAPL-Tata JV has able to cite out the exact reason so far.

    Hence the breakage of Valves due to various reasons including quality of fuel (valves sticking / gum formation due to adulterated fuel etc) is totally unacceptable and doesn’t prove that it has happened due to the negligence of the Owner or contaminated fuel.

    B) It is acceptable that the Vehicle has been registered in October 2003,is out of the maximum warranty period and already run 76000 Km.
    But it is not acceptable that a Fiat Engine encounters Valves breakage without any valid reason at 76000 Km.
    It is understood that Fiat Engines are one of the best in the World and are also used in other Company Passenger Vehicles viz. Tata Motors, Maruti Suzuki in India. Is the fate of Fiat Engines in all these vehicles are also 76000 Km?
    You are not accepting the failure of Fiat Engine, but the same will be accepted by several Indian consumers.

    C) An estimation of INR 1.5 to 2 Lakh/- for the repair and rebuild of Engine has been provided by Fiat Authorized Service Centre without any warranty or guarantee.

    Rebuilding of engine is high precision job and there is no guarantee that after repair or rebuild of the Engine, the vehicle will run problem free and provide total safety to passengers. Fiat Authorized Service Centre has completely failed to ensure Vehicle and passenger safety as cited in point (A).

    Also An estimation of Rs. 70,000/- for one recon engine assembly from Fiat out sources has also been advised by Fiat Authorized Service Centre without any warranty or guarantee(mail attached).

    I have already spent INR 70000/- to maintain my vehicle and expecting quality servicing through Fiat Authorized Service Centre.
    But Fiat Authorized Service Centre has completely failed to ensure Vehicle and passenger safety as cited in point (A).

    D) I have already requested Fiat Group for a replacement Engine at free of cost and to ensure my vehicle to be safe , road worthy and problem free.
    Once confirmed by Fiat Group, the same can be intimated to you for further action.

    E) This is a rare incident already cited out in my earlier mails. Hence a replacement vehicle should be provided to me.

    Arnab Bagchi

    From: manoj.bhaskaran@tatamotors.com [mailto:manoj.bhaskaran@tatamotors.com]
    Sent: 18 November 2010 18:13
    To: Arnab Bagchi
    Cc: Mangesh.Kodalkar@fiapl.com; abhijeet.p@tatamotors.com; rajendra.desai@tatamotors.com; Mangesh.Kodalkar@fiapl.com
    Subject: Mr Arnab - Fiat Palio 1.6 - Pandit Akurdi

    Dear Mr Arnab,

    We are in receipt of your complaint regarding the Fiat Palio 1.6 and our dealer has already replied to you regarding the repairs to be carried out on your car.

    The same was communicated to you by mails as well as telephonic discussions from Pandit auto Akurdi by Mr Suhas Patil. (Mail attached)

    As mentioned by him all the affected parts needs to be replaced for getting the car on road and the workshop team is awaiting your approval as per earlier mail.

    We cannot accept any blame for the services as well as Fiat engine for this failure.

    The date of sale of this car is 07/10/03 and has run 75000 kms which its self is a clear indication of a proven engine and the car is out of warranty now. The valve breakage can happen due to various reasons including quality of fuel (valves sticking / gum formation due to adulterated fuel etc).

    Hence we are not in position to provide you any extra support and the same need to be done as per the discussion with dealer only.

    The alternative vehicles are provided by us only during the warranty period as a loaner car and the same is not possible in this case.

    Request you to kindly discuss with Mr Suhas Patil for any information and if the decision is delayed further the dealer will have the sole authority to charge the parking charges as per trailing mail.

    Manoj Bhaskaran
    Tata –Fiat Pune.

    From: Arnab Bagchi
    Sent: 18 November 2010 16:12
    To: 'TRASENTE Ida (FGA)'
    Cc: 'CUSTOMERCARE INTERNATIONAL (FGA)'; 'Ricky.Walter@fiapl.com'; 'rajeev.kapoor@fiapl.com'; 'ceodesk@fiapl.com'; 'mangesh.kodalkar@fiapl.com'; 'Sergio.Marchionne@fiatgroup.com'; 'Andrea.Formica@fiat.com'; 'Lorenzo.Sistino@fiat.com'; 'service@fiapl.com'
    Subject: Replay from FIAT Customer Care International - Ticket N° #31827884# /5

    Hello Ida/Daniela,

    I would like to point out that there is no feedback from Fiat Group and Fiat Authorized Service Centre till date regarding the below:

    1) Root cause for the valves getting broken leading to Engine breakdown
    2) Replacement Engine free of Cost (As a compensation to no solution till date)
    3) Replacement Vehicle (As I am without vehicle since 16.10.2010)
    4) Negligence of Fiat Authorized Service Centre or Faulty Engine ( fiat produces or sources best engines in the World)

    As an Indian consumer, my viewpoints are listed below:

    a) Fiat is a world renowned brand in the Automobile Industry and is producing quality vehicles for consumers throughout the World.
    But however Fiat establishment in India had been poor due to various reasons viz.

    • Availablity of Spares Parts in time.
    • Servicing Cost incurred to Consumers are on higher side.
    • Fiat somehow has not understood the Indian consumer well so far.

    b) A Fiat Palio S10 Limited Edition Sports Version Vehicle Engine getting breakdown at 76000 Km. is unacceptable. The Service manual states 200000 km.
    Is it the negligence of Fiat Authorized Service Centre to be considered as the main cause for the breakdown? Fiat Authorized Service Centre are supposed to have trained Technical Personnel to advise in advance any defect in Engine. In my case it was not pointed out by anybody from the Service Centre and that too after regular servicing.
    c) If I consider that there was no negligence from Service centre then the Engine has been faulty.Fiat Group should provide replacement Engine as I feel that rebuilding the Engine is of high precision job and not easy for Fiat Authorized Service Centre to perform the same. There is also no warranty or guarantee that the Vehicle will run trouble free after rebuilding the Engine. Hence a replacement Engine can be the best solution.
    d) Today’s generation Fiat Cars viz. Linea,Punto,Upcoming Uno will also become old one day and certainly no Indian Consumers would prefer to have a Vehicle whose Engine performance may be less than 80000 Km.


    Arnab Bagchi

    From: Arnab Bagchi
    Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 3:39 PM
    To: ida.trasente@fiat.com
    Cc: customercareinternational@fiat.com; Ricky Walter; Rajeev Kapoor; ceodesk; Mangesh Kodalkar; Sergio.Marchionne@fiat.com; Andrea.Formica@fiat.com; Lorenzo.Sistino@fiat.com
    Subject: R: dr Replay from FIAT Customer Care International - Ticket N° #31827884# /4

    Hello Ida Trasente/ Daniela Redaelli,

    We both should thank God that nothing fatal happened to all of the passengers.

    Is that only admiration has been guaranteed with Fiat Vehicles and no guarantee on quality and safety?

    My Vehicle has run only 75663 km. and the Engine got breakdown after regular servicing done through Fiat Authorised servicing centre in India.

    Should I consider it the negligence of Fiat Authorized Service Centre in India or a faulty Fiat Engine?

    It’s now a month (16.10.2010 to 15.11.2010) and solution is yet to come.

    I hereby request you the below:

    1) Replacement of the engine at the earliest without any cost incurred to me.
    2) Provide me alternative vehicle till I get back my vehicle in safe and road worthy condition.

    I feel Fiat Group can settle the above matter amicably.

    I wait for your reply at the earliest.

    P.S. I have not yet approached Vehicle Insurance Companies,Government and Regional Transport Offices,Consumer Court,Media in India regarding the fact and Fiat Group attitude of not taking appropriate action.


    Arnab Bagchi

    From: TRASENTE Ida (FGA) [mailto:ida.trasente@fiat.com]
    Sent: 12 November 2010 23:12
    To: Arnab Bagchi
    Subject: I: Re: R: Fwd: R: I: dr Replay from FIAT Customer Care International - Ticket N° #31827884# /3

    Dear Mr Bagci,

    I have received your email and I am sorry about the inconvenience you have encountered with your vehicle.

    We are dealing with your inquiry with Fiat India and will let you know shortly.

    If you need any further assistance and would like to discuss, please do not hesitate to contact me or Daniela directly.

    Kind regards, IDA

    Ida Trasente
    Customer Relations

    Phone + 39 011 0035092
    Fax +39 011 0035361

    -----Messaggio originale-----
    Da: From: Arnab Bagchi
    Inviato: venerdì 12 novembre 2010 10.35
    A: MARCHIONNE Sergio (FIAT S.P.A.); SISTINO Lorenzo (FGA)
    Oggetto: FW: dr Replay from FIAT Customer Care International - Ticket N° #31827884# /3

    Dear Sir,

    The attached communication and below trailing mail is for your perusal.

    I thank all of you for your kind attention.


    Arnab Bagchi

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arnab Bagchi
    Sent: 12 November 2010 12:14
    To: 'customercareinternational@fiat.com'
    Subject: FW: dr Replay from FIAT Customer Care International - Ticket N° #31827884# /3

    Hello Daniela Redaelli,

    Please find attached communication with Fiat Ranjangaon, Pune till date.

    Hope you may now understand the level of inconvenience I am facing currently.

    I expect full support from the Fiat Group.


    Arnab Bagchi
    -----Original Message-----
    From: arnab1972@yahoo.co.uk
    Sent: 11/11/2010, 18:30
    To: customercareinternational@fiat.com
    Subject: RE: dr Replay from FIAT Customer Care International - Ticket N° #31827884#

    Hello Daniela Redaelli,

    thanks for your reply.

    This is a very rare and life threatening incident and that too occurred after regular servicing done through Fiat Authorised servicing centre in India.

    I need your special attention and full support from Fiat Group to make this vehicle safe and road worthy.

    Please feel free to get in touch with me for any further enquiries.


    Arnab Bagchi

    -----Original Message-----
    From: customercareinternational@fiat.com
    Sent: 11/11/2010, 17:31
    To: arnab1972@yahoo.co.uk
    Subject: dr Replay from FIAT Customer Care International - Ticket N° #31827884#

    [] Dear Mr ARNAB BAGCHI,

    Thank you for your e-mail addressed to Fiat Group Automobiles S.p.A.

    We received your complain and we are very sorry for the inconveniences you are having with your Fiat vehicle.

    My name is Daniela and I will be dealing with your complain. Be assured I am investigating and I wi come back to you as soon as we have some information.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Daniela Redaelli
    Customer Relations
    Fiat Group Automobiles S.p.A.
  4. Dear All,

    Find below the response of FIAPL-Tata Motors:

    From: manoj.bhaskaran@tatamotors.com [mailto:manoj.bhaskaran@tatamotors.com]
    Sent: 22 November 2010 14:28
    To: Arnab Bagchi
    Cc: suhas.pune@yahoo.co.in; raghunath.pakhare@gmail.com; abhijeet.p@tatamotors.com; clatkar@panditauto.com; Mangesh.Kodalkar@fiapl.com
    Subject: RE: Mr Arnab - Fiat Palio 1.6 - Pandit Akurdi-FIAT Customer Care International - Ticket N° #31827884#

    Dear Arnab,

    We had made every thing very clear in the earlier trailing mail. Engine replacement under free of cost is not possible at all.

    Cc: Dear Suhas – As per your policy please start charging for the parking.

    Manoj Bhaskaran.
    From: Arnab.Bagchi
    Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 1:47 PM
    To: Mangesh.Kodalkar@fiapl.com; P ABHIJEET R [ Regional Co-ordinator (Fiat Cust Supp) , Mumbai PCBU , Mumbai ] ; DESAI RAJENDRA R [ Area Office Incharge (Pune) , Mumbai PCBU , Pune ] ; Ricky.Walter@fiapl.com; rajeev.kapoor@fiapl.com; ceodesk@fiapl.com; Sergio.Marchionne@fiatgroup.com; Andrea.Formica@fiat.com; Lorenzo.Sistino@fiat.com; service@fiapl.com; BHASKARAN MANOJ [ Assistant Manager (Customer Support) , Mumbai PCBU , Pune ]
    Subject: FW: Mr Arnab - Fiat Palio 1.6 - Pandit Akurdi-FIAT Customer Care International - Ticket N° #31827884#


    Dear Fiat Group,

    Further to the below , I request you to arrange for Replacement Engine (free of Cost) for my Vehicle at the earliest.


    Arnab Bagchi
  5. Ravi

    Ravi Staff Member Janitor

    Grande Punto 1.3
    Arnab, sad story, but I am not sure anybody will replace the engine after warranty period is over.
    By this time its almost sure no body can provide you the exact reason for breakdown.

    The best thing would be to let them repair and claim insurance.

    Having said that, the reply from Mr. Manoj Bhaskaran is just pathetic. He doesn't have basic decency to talk to a customer who is in so much trouble. I don't know how Tata Motors hires these idiots to customer handling departments.
    1 person likes this.
  6. Hi Arnab, this is very unusual and unfortunate. There's no way you will get engine replacement for free from Fiat. When I had to repair my palio 1.2 Venkatesh (bangalore) said if the engine is completely gone, it will be done within 36-40k. (mine was not gone though, jus spent 10k for few things) As someone mentioned earlier about 1.6 stile (2007), even I have seen that car, he had to spend jus 40k on engine, rest 25 on other things. 1.5 to 2 lakhs quote from Tata is bullshit. The main reason is improper handling and maintenance from previous owner. You are seriously unfortunate, Usually it doesn't happen this way with FIAT cars. If you were in bangalore well things would have got better. My palio 1.2 (2002 ELX) after giving it to venkatesh has become superb now, 157 top speed recently, before I serviced, it wasn't even doing 130. Well even I dint check the car properly before I bought it and had to spend 25k later. Please note i am talkin about a 1.2 here, 1.6 engines are way too better and never gives major issues uptill 2 lakhs atleast.
  7. Dear Viewers,

    please find attached estimation for repair of Engine by Pandit Automobiles,Pune.

    This is for your information.

    I pray to God that no Fiat Lovers face similar situation like me.

    Regards[attachment=0:27yhd9o1]1.6 fiat palio engine estimate.xlsx[/attachment:27yhd9o1]
  8. kedarbendre

    kedarbendre Esperto

    MH 12
    Hay your car is in Pune. Please let me know if you need any help, I am from Pune.
  9. Re: Fiat Palio S10 Engine Breakdown at 75K

    Hey Kedar,

    Thanks for your help.

    Anybody can reach me at +919867712793

  10. Dear All,

    Here is the last mail from Fiat,Italy

    -----Original Message-----
    From: customercareinternational@fiat.com
    Sent: 23/11/2010, 17:20
    To: arnab1972@yahoo.co.uk
    Subject: dr Replay from Alfa Romeo Customer Center International Ticket #31827884#

    [] Dear Mr Bagchi,

    Following our phone conversation I am writing to you concerning your issue.

    I am very sorry for the situation occurred and I regret any inconveniences this may have caused you.

    Unfortunately we are not in the position to proceed with the repair under warranty, due to the age of your vehicle.

    Although FGA India has offered you a discount of the 10% on the labour, you have not accepted it and refused to start the repair. At this point and following your requested, we confirm that if you collect the vehicle today or tomorrow you will not be charged for the parking and for the opening of the engine

    Assuring you our best attention at all times

    Yours faithfully

    Daniela Redaelli
    Customer Relations
    Fiat Group Automobiles S.p.A.

    As usual, there is no reference of replacement Engine for a seven year old vehicle from the Fiat Group.

    Hence the final countdown came on 24.11.2010.

    I took the delivery of my Vehicle at un-repaired condition along with dis-assembled engine parts and accessories.

    The whole junk of Engine and supporting parts were loaded into the vehicle and towed from Pandit Automobiles,Akurdi to a local Garage in Pune.

    This brings the death of a Fiat Palio S10.


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