Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by esskay, Aug 2, 2014.
Fiat Spa is acting like step mom to FIAL.
Guys the Fiat five year plan for India announced a couple of months ago CLEARLY states:
Jeep launch in 2015.
Grand Cherokee: local assembly.
Jeep C-SUV for 'industrialization' i.e., local manufacture (either renegade or the upcoming Compass replacement which will be on the same platform and with the same Fiat engines): 2016
an all-new Fiat launch for 2016. This will not be the Viaggio, i am pretty sure, but will most likely be a Fiat version of the locally-made Jeep B/C-SUV with which it will share the SUSW Punto-expanded platform and the bigger MJD, to go up against the Duster, Hyundai ix25, Maruti S-Cross et al.
Autocar recently confirmed all this, based on fiat sources.
I know a dealer who confirms that Jeep dealership Launch work is well underway.
About skepticism about Fiat India's plans: they missed the launch of the 1.6 mjd in the Linea (promise broken). And they delayed the launch of Jeep, very justifiably IMO (currency collapse, elections, slowdown). BUT: they've stuck to the their word on dealerships, spares availability, new Linea, New Punto and Avventura.
Not such a bad strike rate, by the old standards of Fiat, is it?! ;-)
Fiat has promised for 1.6 in Linea. They might not able to give because they didn't get the permission to provide this in Linea ( may be by FIAT SPA, there might be model plan for each country specific, so this type of engine can be introduce to that model only). Fiat has targetted Linea in C2 segment where Linea sold as D segment car other country. Viaggio will be in consideration by FIAT India as Chrysler 200 is same line as executive segment. No other car is mentioned as D segment car. I don't want to disclose any information further as I got the plan details for Viaggio and I informed them if they can take Customer feedback then launch Viaggio with 1.9/2.0 as full fledge D sedan, and launch Linea special model ( only one with 1.6). And those are thinking for 1.5 Fiat doesn't have any plan as this engine is rumore.
Just think if 1.6 is not there how 1.5 will come to india. Fiat need to reduce the stroke length from 1.6 where bore can't be changed if the engine size is getting downwrad. VW is preparing 1.5 globally so giving same. Whether Fiat doesn’t have any 1.5 in anywhere in the world, why they reduce merely couple of engine as 1.5 from 1.6. MS/Tata doesn’t have license to use 1.6 globally too. As SX4 and Fiat Sedici is the joint venture of FIAT & Suzuki, Suzuki used only in SX4 and where they got the License for that. Fiat can’t sell 1.5 or 1.6 to Suzuki/TATA in India as they are not going to sell this to them, Else you could have seen this 1.6 MJD in Ciaz. So How many engine you expect to be by FIAT for 1.5 to sell in india. That is the reason FIAT didn’t introduce this till date. In D segment sedan there is no way and this 1.6 engine might be imported as Earlier TJet. Think Practically and from business perspective, no one will introduce a derived engine for mere sales ( where this engine is not anywhere in the world) .
FIAT has its own RnD center here in form of Chrysler. Why cant they do some jugaad to reduce or increase 1.6 to 1.5 or 1.3 to 1.5 respectively? I know its not just easy as said, but its not impossible right. As you said reducing from 1.6 might get into a endless licensing crap issue, but increasing from 1.3 to 1.5 would have that issue unless and otherwise engine options are strictly monitored by FIAT Spa.
Engine Displacement= 0.7854X bore2XstrokeXnumber of cylinder.
Now the number cylinder is fixed as 4, now the bore or stroke can be changed to increase or decrease engine displacement which is represented as CC of engine.
Now stroke is the length of the piston movement from top dead center to bottom dead center. Bore is the diameter inside the cylinder.
Stroke can be reduced by changing the stroke length reduction (Piston/camshaft redesign).
Bore can be increased by drilled the cylinder (Which is not suggested as the engine wall thickness will be reduced and lots of complication with engine reliability issue will be aroused).
So changing bore you can increase the bore size only, means upsizing the engine with higher displacement (practically no one does this). They prepare new engine block instead of this.
Downsizing the engine is the only option which is used by several manufacturers by reducing stroke length. This option also has several disadvantage & advantage too. While reducing stroke length piston is running less distance to complete one full cycle, so you will get instant acceleration far better but the load carrying capacity will be less. So this engine will be felt as lagging while full load (with passenger & full luggage). To use it as sporty nature with very less load you can use this.
Now for Fiat as per above rule 1.3 to higher is not possible. Only option is downsizing, so 1.5 is the option can be adopted by Fiat from 1.6.
But why 1.5 is not required instead of 1.6. I always prefer original engine than derived one.
1. For 1.5 powers and torque will be almost same as 1.6, so 6 speed gearbox and whole new piston camshaft design required. VW has 5 speed gearbox for 1.2/1.5/1.6, so no issue.
2. Stroke length need to be reduced where Fiat has to redesign this with all new parts, where is the guaranty if 1.5 rejected by market where this engine and parts will go ( stock parts).
3. Fiat doesn’t sell any license to anyone for 1.6, except Suzuki Sx4 which is the joint venture of Fiat & Suzuki with Fiat Sedici model, so Suzuki can only use 1.6 MJD where they have the license to use in SX4. So you might see SX4 cross in India with 1.6 MJD (only after FIAT launch 1.6 in India). Based on FIAT & Maruti plan this option is viable.
4. FIAT has to import this 1.6. As per TATA-FIAT JV whichever engine produced from Ranjangaon plant (MJD) Fiat has to share this, which is the reason TATA got 1.3 MJD (76 & 90 both). TJet imported first for Linea so no sharing with TATA and later produced in Plant. For this reason new Plant is required, now you can understand what the issue is. Once JV complete FIAT has to introduce new assembly line for 1.6, same assembly line for 1.3 can’t be used.
5. Now the License part, FIAT SPA has to allow FIAT India to use this though FIAT India is child of FIAT SPA. Import is the viable option here to produce here directly.
6. Viaggio is the JV of GAC ( GUANJHAU Automobile company and FIAT), they has to agree to use Viaggio in other part of the globe. May be that part is done by FIAT.
7. Now Introducing 1.6 in Linea will shoot the cost higher ( with 6 speed gear too and more feature than Linea 1.3). With Higher Tax bracket it will fail again ( LINEA 1.3 MJD is 11.60 On road now already).
8. Introduce 1.6 in Viaggio will save Fiat in multiple way ( no higher tax bracket and extra new features).
Very nice explaination buddy. thanks alot. Cleared few doubts.
Because FIAT is not some roadside hack who is trying to make a quick buck from a customer's car. They are a manufacturer and they have to present a well engineered solution. And FIAT's diesels are some of the most well engineered engines out there.
I chose the word jugaad to not deteriorate in terms of quality output but to take a shortcut route in developing a engine which was in context of discussion
I stopped daydreaming for any new engine from FIAT and I am pretty sure that my next car will not be FIAT until n unless they offer a proper 7 seater MPV or SUV.
Correction - Linea 1.3 does not come under the small car definition. so 1.6 will not attract any more taxes. if something in cost increases will be only manufacturing cost or import duty for 1.6
please correct me if I am wrong here.
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