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FIAT India Sales

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,902
    Location:
    delhi ncr
    It is increasingly unlikely that fca will replace the Punto and Linea et al: at all. The more Jeep succeeds, especially if the Renegade and/or Jeep 4m '515' emerging-markets-only model also succeed somewhat or a lot like the Compass has: the lower the chances of FIATs being bothered with in India. The economics are simply forbidding in the c- and b-segments SO dominated by MarutiS and Hyundai (+maybe Tata, maybe in the future Kia.)

    The ONLY way imo there can be any future FIATs in India is via a rhd export-centrism of somwhat 'premium within mass', eurospec type models imo: the likes of the 500X and/or 500L (platform and powertrain siblings of the Compass and renegade.) These models might have enough rhd export demand made- and localized in India? Maybe? The Argo family of FIAT-branded models have NO rhd or any non-latam prospects or plans, so doing them for India-only is most unlikely imo, being too expensive and too risky (in the segments they are in.)

    Ranjangaon capacity utilization levels are already soaring (Compass+exports thereof+TataNexon+2litre mjd....) and there is MUCH more coming soon via both fca/Jeep and Tata and on the engines front for other firms.

    So: all-new FIATs are making ever less sense for and in India, imo.

    Especially since government policies for the auto sector are in serious question/doubt/mess. FCA will like almost all firms ex-marutiS and Hyundai-Kia, ex-Mahindra+Tata, stand pat and let clarity emerge (as far as FIATs go, not as far as Jeep does), which will not at all be before 2020 at the earliest imo (everything from taxation to emissions norms, fuel quality standards, ev and hybrid subsidy policies etc etc are currently in severe and expensive+debatable flux.)
     
    kunwar.g likes this.
  2. amitshedha

    amitshedha Amatore

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    Pune
    Yes but models which can share parts with jeep can be brought in, in case FCA wants to diversify the portfolio.
     
    prabhjot likes this.
  3. Krunal Bhatt

    Krunal Bhatt Amatore

    Messages:
    149
    Location:
    Ahmedabad
    Ahmedabad
    Punto Evo 1.3
    For now (I mean 2-3 years), it seems FCA has JEEP only plans for India. Once they have good number of dealers/service centers, they they may bring new FIAT here in India. Top to Down Approach.
    BTW, read a rumor on other sites that, FIAT may stop providing 1.3 mjd engines to others. Is it true? And if true, will it be helpful or financial suicide?
     
    prabhjot likes this.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,902
    Location:
    delhi ncr
    @Krunal Bhatt


    The 1.3 mjd/mjd2 is being decommissioned by 2020 in Europe, due to the new post-vw-dieselgate EU emissions testing+revised taxation etc regimes. The ONLY other market for such small diesels in PVs anywhere in the world is India, BUT here too by 2020 or a little later bs6 etc will kickin, making the small-diesel die a cost/price increase NATURAL (i.e., marketplace, market forces) death. As it is in the b- and c-segments where this engine is deployed (mainly by MarutiS) the share of petrols is rising steadily: by 2019+ even the MarutiS diesel-only models like the 'suv'-s (Brezza+SCross) will skew towards petrols.

    THIS is why fca has invested in India as a manufacturing hub for the 2 litre mjd2, instead. Demand for itself, for Tata's larger upcoming all-new suv-type models and for MarutiS' larger suv-models, at a minimum: if not one or two other firms, for the bigger diesel at d-segment price points will sustain for a few years beyond 2019/2020, unlike the 1.3 mjd?

    FCA engine manufacture of diesels in Italy and Poland is increasingly shifting to the 2.2 all-aluminium/etc highend engine used for now on the new Alfa romeo-s, coming soon on the revamped 2018 Jeep Cherokee and likely the 2018 all-new EU-version Wrangler too. i.e., By 2020 India could also export, become the export-hub for the 2 litre mjd2 to Europe, mainly for use (post expensive new EU emissions test etc regime) in FCA and others' vans/uv-s.

    btw, the 1.6 mjd2 is VERY closely related to the 2 litre one, as also the upgraded 2.2 litre on the new Alfa-s and new Jeeps (same engine family: and very different to the 1.3 mjd2 design.) i.e., for future Jeeps (and FIATs??) fca india will have no difficulty offering the 1.6 mjd2 or a downtuned version of the Compass' 2litre mjd, very cost/price-competitively.

    FCA's, as is true for ALL firms, problem now is that (a) the market is skewing back to petrols, and the t-jet/mulitiair or the new-gen Firefly family are not localized (b)and yet gst taxation based on engine displacement (1.2 litre for petrols) is intact i believe while (c) the government is lurching towards, 2020+, a faddish ev-centric policy which may or may not entail subsidies for the industry as it struggles to invest for all-new hybrid and/or ev high fe, low emissions powertrains. Meanwhile too-high tariffs on engine/automotive imports continue too.

    i.e., investment planning as far as engines and transmissions in India as well as the basic business cases for them is 'in a toss/spin', 'gaya tel becchne'. As far as I can tell fca will avoid huge losses via their abandonment in time of the 1.3 mjd in favour of the 2litre mjd2 (and exports+supplies to other firms/brands thereof) but they've surely suffered a margins hit already on the Compass given the surprisingly large orders for the t-jet ma engine on the Compass, since that engine is NOT localized, and may not be economically localizable before 2020 at the earliest (given government policy and taxation etc severe flux and uncertainty over emissions, fuel regs and ev/hybrid-subsidies etc.) It is also less supply-able to other firms (for now), as well as much-less exportable by fca india (as opposed to: by fca europe.)

    I'd guess that fca india will localize the all-new Fire and t-jet engine family-replacement, the FIREFLY one (including 3cylinder 1litre turbo and 1.3 litre, i4 turbo petrols), the 'Global Small Engine' family: but well AFTER 2020, since these ultra-efficient and euro6 compliant engines are ideal and have been designed for use in mild hybrid or plugin hybrid formats. Why 2020? because only by then, if at all, there will be clarity from the Indian central government in terms of the inevitable subsidies/tax-abatements/etc that will be required given the higher cost and prices of bs6 etc compliant engines.
     
    kunwar.g likes this.
  5. Murphy_Fiat

    Murphy_Fiat Superiore

    Messages:
    692
    Location:
    Trivandrum
    Trivandrum
    Linea T-Jet
    September Sales Figures are out.

    Jeep Compass - 2151
    Abarth - 1
    Linea - 40
    Evo+Avventura+Punto - 168

    Total - 2360
     
  6. amitshedha

    amitshedha Amatore

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    Pune
    Heard FCA was planning ramping production to around 3k to meet demand. Guess its not happening yet and compass seems stagnant at 2k+
     
  7. Murphy_Fiat

    Murphy_Fiat Superiore

    Messages:
    692
    Location:
    Trivandrum
    Trivandrum
    Linea T-Jet
    Because Jeep has Started Petrol Variant Production in September. From Next month it will be 3k +.
     
  8. Krunal Bhatt

    Krunal Bhatt Amatore

    Messages:
    149
    Location:
    Ahmedabad
    Ahmedabad
    Punto Evo 1.3
    2151-Compass
    209-FIATs

    It could be because of High demand of Compass but I don't think FIAT brand can touch 500-1000 mark in future.
    Now even I began to believe that FIAT brand is about to take GM route. :-(
     
  9. Sumit

    Sumit Superiore

    Messages:
    696
    Location:
    Munger
    Not really. I think its going to be better days for Fiat. People will have a feel of Fiat cars too in the showrooms. I'm sure Fiat, Abarth & Jeep will coexist.
     
  10. amitshedha

    amitshedha Amatore

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    Pune
    If Jeep does well and FCA dealership and service centers increase, then fiat can bring some vehicles which share platforms with Jeeps. With punto and linea I think the current sales numbers can hardly increase since the products are reaching end of life now. urban cross still looks great though & some people might buy it at discounts in festive season..
     

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