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FIAT India Sales

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. Krunal Bhatt

    Krunal Bhatt Amatore

    Messages:
    149
    Location:
    Ahmedabad
    Ahmedabad
    Punto Evo 1.3
  2. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Superiore

    Messages:
    551
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    Always amusing to see how being a fan in general makes people lose sight of the mistakes that Fiat makes. A company that sells 4 cars, 3 of which are versions of the Punto and 1 sedan both a decade old, the numbers that they do are fair enough. They will slowly die out at this rate and may remain in India as engine manufacturers only till such time that Maruti does not develop it's own engine.

    We will see what they do with the Jeep models (if they are released on time) and whether those will be available at reasonable prices with the necessary frills and features.
     
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,902
    Location:
    delhi ncr
    It is amusing how it is assumed that the 'market is always right' i.e., the buying 'public' 'in its wisdom'.
    Jo haara usski galti, jo jeeta woh sikander. etc.

    As any economist, marketing person, investment analyst, investor, banker, dealer or supplier, nevermind an organisation/systems-analyst will tell you: there are a number of large scale contextual factors that outweigh any such individual company factors.

    These can involve market structure (e.g., the oligopolistic nature of the indian car baazar), regulatory factors (e.g., the disabling of fiat or say ford from availing of its passive safety superiority of build, since there are no regs for a public who don't give a damn or that thinks that a swift with abs and airbags is safe-enough etc), cultural factors (the absolute priority accorded to resale 'value' which of course is NOT 'value' but a mere resale 'price') etc etc.

    To expect FCA to spend say 1000-2000 crores on a slew of new models (look at how honda have fared with their new model blitz, or just how poorly tata is faring with its, etc) with really really dim-to-no chances of success (measurable only by profitability for dealers and for fca, even if over a period of time.)

    FCA has done well to, unlike everyone else, make plenty of money in India even as everyone lost and still lose money hand-over-fist. Their attempts with the refreshed models, abarth, new dealerships at least deserved a, say, some slight response. None whatsoever was forthcoming. It is a fool's errand to believe that companies should pour good money after bad when possibilities for ANY profitability are so dim or absent for so many firms not just a tiny brand, and that too with historical stigmas attached, like FIAT.

    Even JEEP is being brought here ONLY because of exports and cheap donkey-work-grade Jeep engineering workers (engineering coolies, as it were, like the famous 'cybercoolies'.) Plus FCA is stuck with redundant capacity here, as are so many firms (not least being Ford, Chevy, tata.)

    The Indian mass, sub-10-lakhs market does NOT justify any further attempts by FCA or any other firm UNLESS they want to reate some special 'third world crap car with lipstick and a touchscreen' just for India, Vietnam etc.

    FCA does not have any such model in their portfolio, now or tomorrow. Even if they did (say a Panda/Cross as exemplar for the Ignis/4x4, or a MOBI) how does fca get the scale economies to price the car at desi levels? Maruti and Hyundai and maybe Mahndra (though the latter's now slipping badly) are the only ones with the domestic scale. NO one else (other than via large export volumes, not available to most firms.) Neither does VW. Nor does Toyota, now that the Etios and Liva have been dismal failures. Nor does Skoda, or Chevy. ETC.

    As I keep pointing out: we need to rid ourselves of our 'nationalist pride' delusions about 'India is an emerging super economy, market etc' with the 'world's greatest middle class' etc.

    India is no such thing in the car industry (which has been in a slowdown mode since 2012 with losses mounting for most large firms since then esp), may at best become that in a few years when it comes to bikes and scooters, since cars are not mere mobile or smartphones.

    The shakeout in dealerships and service centres across so many firms (not just Fiat which now has Jeep, but also bmw, nissan, skoda, vw, tata, chevy) is now extending itself to the firms themselves. Hence the upcoming shutdown of plants (Chevy), retrenchments+mergers/m&a/badge-engineering (tata and vw, ford and mahindra, even Toyota with suzuki in india etc.)

    The Indian car market large-participants ARE mostly in crisis (barring ms, hy and mahindra), one that is coming to a boil for many firms with exports being the only saving grace over the last 3-5 years.

    As usual Marchionne has seen this coming: 2 years ago he said clearly pointing to the wastefulness of Renault-Nissan's third-world-model blitz (based on dacia-s plus the micra and sunny) that it is very very hard to make money in such markets. Only very few manage to (e.g., Suzuki in India or Toyota in se-asia.) Carlos Ghosn has himself acknowledged the failure of the third-world-pitched Micra and Sunny.

    It is not like it was back when Toyota, Nissan and Honda were minnows and growing in such countries. He said that viability followed as much from engine and technology supplies (e.g., fca in india with, apart from engines, the large and growing Magneti Marelli amt and lighting businesses.) FIAT was removed by him as a 'global strategic growth' brand, esp in Asia-Pacific, i.e., outside of Europe+turkey+LatAM, with the emphasis shifting entirely to the MM business and to Jeep, Maserati and now Alfa Romeo in Asia.

    This was strategic decision on FCA (mike manley and Marchionne)'s part around the time the Jeep 300million$ investment in india was announced. It was borne of the experience of the FIAT brand competing against entrenched Jap, Chinese and Korean firms+GM china in China (Viaggio and Ottimo) and in India (new Linea, Punto Evo, Avventura, Abarth debacles despite independent dealers.) FCA is selling Jeeps like anything in China, and will use inexpensive Indian-made Jeeps to attack the Jap-and-Korean-strong ASEAN+australia+india+middleEast markets, instead.

    FIATs are dead here already. Long live JEEP! (well at least good Jeep exports;-))

    Personally i don't think Jeep will sell that well here: maybe the 2 localized Jeeps could amount to 12-14k +/- a year at best? Folks will still 'gravitate' mostly towards Maruti-s, Hyundai-s, Mahindra-s and Toyota-s of which there'll be several suv-s, however pseudo or true. Because resale, trust etc etc.

    As long as the dealers' business case is met, and it is great that there are fewer-but-better of them (plus inexpensive small third party official service workshops for old Fiats): that'll be more than enough, with fca itself making good money through export volumes. The Jeep b-suv, below Renegade, will likely be launched as a full major offering in Europe too, exported from here, kind of like a Jeep panda cross 4x4. Good export volumes, likely far more than its sales in India?
     
    Bala likes this.
  4. spikeyhair

    spikeyhair Novizio

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Hyderabad
    Hyderabad
    Fiat Enthusiast
    Who knows the Indian public may just have a change of buying preferences in the future!!!

    Classic case of Yamaha bikes coming back from the dead with their new gen bikes....

    Regards
    Bharath
     
    prabhjot likes this.
  5. Bala

    Bala Esperto

    Messages:
    1,199
    Location:
    Villupuram
    Off topic,may be here
    Can anyone please post a list of official 3rd party sevice centres,the one in pondichery says he is an authorized one but I do not know and my car has to travel 300 kms for a service.
     
  6. Ravi_M

    Ravi_M Regolare

    Messages:
    389
    Location:
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea 1.3
    @Bala, how come you state 300 kms? Or is there a mix-up? The map shows Villupuram is 50 km from Puduchery (on Trichy Trunk road).
    There is one service centre at Vellore that I have visited. That is about 150 km from Villupuram.
     
  7. Bala

    Bala Esperto

    Messages:
    1,199
    Location:
    Villupuram
    Yes,but puduchery service and sales centre is closed :(,only option is to take the car to Chennai or trichy which are 160 kms away,so to and fro it's 300 kms travel for just a regular service.
    So,I wanted to know if puduchery has a 3rd party,authorized service centre,he claims he gives only a fiat bill.
     
  8. Ravi_M

    Ravi_M Regolare

    Messages:
    389
    Location:
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea 1.3
    I got you! You may consider Vellore RDC service centre (at Alamelumangapuram, Sathuvachari) - for ease of reach and less traffic (probably!). The google map shows 2-3 routes from Villupuram ranging from 135 to 158 kms. I assume that RDC is a known service company in TN, right?
     
    Bala likes this.
  9. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,206
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    There is the problem side and then the solution (provider) side. There was a trusted reputed manufacturer namely Maruti and few more who adopted the diesels mjds from Fiat (a solution in SDE) which fit perfectly and a car the swift and such others right uptill their sedans and their mini suv crossoverish newbies novelties. There's news of Hyundai coming up with Santro again to regain foothold against the Kwid which no matter the sales has got them to take note including Maruti of course.

    Point being that markets decide whats right and it's always a hindsight which is 20:20 whereas what's needed is a foresight. And we can have polar views about Fiat strategies but fact remains that opportunities were there irrespective of the market size. A company like VW had to let go their snobbery and align interests with Tata to form a front, a 'gatbandhan' of sorts for all the obvious reasons including the tainted recent history. You can't argue about the fact that Maruti did well just by borrowing it and tweaking tuning it for Indian conditions. Yes maybe globally India ain't nothing in the global growth story and nationalistic pride may not matter. But for many it does matter. May not be the whole truth agreed!

    By now we already know the viewpoints we hold radical in some manners and soft elsewhere which is totally fine by the way, perceptions may not always be the reality and vice-versa. The discussions though always welcome whats 'most amusing' is why people don't just leave it as opinions (without any implied disregard of course to anyones opinions). So someone's logical viewpoints might be seen as fanboyistic, so what? Let's take what's presented and try and see from their 'lenses' maybe the picture looks clear or maybe not, or maybe we don't want to see the picture. Or we think what we see is an illusion.

    So let's not take things to much at heart and lets agree to one thing that self interests as customers and Fiat's interest to sustain and deliver in long term the products we have come to appreciate irrespective of past and present issues related to new products or services.

    No one's buying that market alone is to be blamed, professionalism is the least they would expect from a global brand and expect to do better maybe for their self-interest or otherwise.

    Let's all wait and watch!
     
    prabhjot likes this.
  10. Tony

    Tony Esperto

    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    Kalamboli, Navi Mumbai
    Kuwait
    Grande Punto 1.2
    The sales is decent for the top officials sitting in the closed cabins
    As there is no proper advertisements on the channels with no propaganda in the newspaper about the product and it's capabilities which for sure people don't know it expect for the enthusiast.
    As they are happy with selling the engines.
     

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