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FIAT India Sales

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. kk27

    kk27 Amatore

    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Fiat Enthusiast
    Personally I'm seeing sea change in a short span of time due the really bold move by the government, & that benefit is digital transactions. I always felt I was bearing the tax burden of the country being a employed worker (i.e. paying the tax to my last penny) but inturn I'd be taking out Cash & doling it to other people right from Vegetable vendors, General stores etc... the track of my Money is then lost into oblivion, also meaning that they're effectively not coming into the tax net & I'm paying for it.

    Now I see that my Barber is on Paytm, General Store guy, Sweet Shop has card swipe etc... all this in a very short span. I would'nt have expected them to ever be digital. By this move I - the employed professional am supremely happy that these people too have come in the banking net & there's track of where my hard-earned-tax-paid money flows & probably one day even these people will effectively pay taxes.

    Coming to FIAT Story, I recently see ads for Urban Cross on Papers & some of my friends really like the car! Fiat needs a bit of marketing & maybe atleast an hope of new launches to set the ball rolling - on the VFM aspect.
     
  2. Turbothinghy

    Turbothinghy Esperto

    Messages:
    1,230
    Pune
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    Yes the idea is to make use of digital payments as far as possible. Recently read that now one can transfer money from one paytm account to another paytm account without internet (by calling a toll free number from your registered number) which is brilliant IMO. Modi is supporting Paytm very well.
     
  3. SwifttoPunto

    SwifttoPunto Amatore

    Messages:
    78
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    @prabhjot

    On point (a) and (b), there are already multiple reports and studies that validate the thinking that GST have mostly positive effect on auto industry. EY, PWC etc reports also can be searched online.

    Point (c); Money has color from legal and social justice perspective. It changes from black to white depending on the person who is holding it, how he is holding it and the source from where he got. If somebody dont want to call it as black and white then it is fine but the fact remains. Economic value without legal and social value (justice) is not acceptable.

    Other points (d) to (f) I am not sure if I have understand these statement. These seem to be very high end statements.
    On statement 'money has no colour, it is always just simply legal: RBI 'promises to pay the bearer....', I don't know what to say. It is very literal meaning and statement. I already mentioned real fact on this above, money has color.

    Money is always white or legal when issued by RBI. Once it changes hands it keeps on changing its color/legality. But holder always eligible to get the amount from RBI and nobody disputing it. Once money becomes black in the hands of a person (untaxed and/or undeclared) generally its multiflying effect in terms of asset creation is always black. You mentioned majority of the block money is held in property, gold, etc., etc., which is true but why they became black because majority of them are created out of black money/currency.

    Your statement 'Blackness is a function of tax compliance and tax enforcement or rather its lack' is absolutely true. Nobody equated cash held completely as black money. Everyone is aware that majority is white money. Only portion of it is black money. Fact that everyone gets targeted is also wrong and only suspicious balances and transactions gets targeted. Unlike normal terrorism, tax terrorism creates terror in only those people who evaded tax or facilitated tax evasion. Of course like any other activity there will be side effect of very minimal percentage on others as well.

    Let me also give my perspective why targeting black money in the form of cash first is right step. As I said majority of the black money in the form of assets are created out black money in the form of currency. It will keep on adding assets/multiplying it without generating tax and so not fulfilling its social obligation. Now when we bring back all the cash into account, assuming all are now assessed and taxed, so it becomes white (dont blame the Govt for people who smartly avoided it even in the current situation). Now for realising the value of the assets that held as black money, people have to receive white money. In the ideal situation assuming Govt puts further systems in place to track these things, the person who has realised the value in white money has to declare that value and has to pay tax, this black money multiflyer effect speed gets reduced drastically. Well this is very ideal situtation. But in the current situtation what will happen, speed will not gets reduced to such a large extent, but still there will be reduction.

    If cash was not targeted first but tried to target other assets first, there is a large black money in terms of liquid assets available which facilitates avoiding disclosure of those assets.

    Point (i) is sweeping statement without much basis at this stage. Cash shortage, reduction in sales volume, etc., are all short term and very time bound. The perception of sweeping insecurity etc., are also not fully based on ground reality. I can argue differently based on what people around me talking.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 9, 2016 ---
    On private players like Paytm getting benefit out of this. Business is all about timing. There are many players who existed at right time and reaped very good benefit out of this. on Govt's part it had always tried put something different in place through UPI sytem with 20 plus banks party to this, micro ATMs, reducing fee for card transactions, etc.,
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  4. Inderpreet Bajwa

    Inderpreet Bajwa Amatore

    Messages:
    102
    Amritsar, Punjab
    Linea 1.3
    Demonetisation has considerably affected the sales of majority of automobile brands. Everyday some news is coming related to great decline in Sales. Just today I was reading a news about great decline in sales of Mahindra (Bolero, XUV, Scorpio which are much in demand).

    Moving on to FIAT, It hardly matters 'cuz before also the sales number was very less so FIAT hasn't suffered much due to demonetisation as it wasn't in gain before.

    Agreed with @kk27 Marketing of FIAT cars need to be improved.

    FIAT cars are so eye catchy that an improved after sales service may result into a lot of difference. I don't know why FIAT doesn't get it despite of negative response since long from customers on the issue of after sales.
     
  5. amitshedha

    amitshedha Amatore

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    Pune
    Let's not make it a political forum. We will all know whether it was a good move or not in a few months or a couple of years. :)
     
    Inderpreet Bajwa likes this.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,902
    Location:
    delhi ncr
    It is ALREADY clear that the costs of this singularly illogical and ill-executed-on-top-of-that policy (of conflating black money with cash per se) outweigh all benefits since THOSE same benefits could (and have somewhat been in India since the eighties through several tax reforms, JUST LIKE ALL OTHER developing countries and developed countries with high tax to gdp ratios in the past and the present) easily have been achieved WITHOUT de/re-monetization.

    Remove tax exemptions for corporates. Nationalize, perhaps even with freshly minted 'securities' by the RBI, delinquent corporate 'bad loans' now to the tune of 10lakh crores plus and counting. Hire a few tens of thousands of new tax officers, setup independent fast courts exclusively for tax and commercial litigation purposes. This govt has done NONE of the OBVIOUS above in its tenure, so: what are its bona fides on this too-broad-brush issue/approach?

    Aside from deep immediate damage (which IS huge across several ostensibly 'white white' sectors as well, and not just among farmers, casual labour, property speculators or small micro enterprises) there necessarily is the longer term damage: a spate of loan delinquencies for a banking and financial sector already drowning in them, a rush towards gold (smuggling is up hugely) and away-from-the-rupee-into-$, AND the spreading fear of lawless, arbitrary tax confiscations, harassment, extortion/protection-racketeering since to 'demonize cash' in the name of a crackdown on tax evasion is to IN PRINCIPLE make everyone a priori and prima facie potentially culpable of unaccounted (and often unaccountable!) income.

    As for digital payments for small values: it is absurd. Why the hell? Cash is 'coined freedom'. It is a fundamental and FREE right, indeed a right-to-rights: no service fees, no bandwith or data security or privacy or battery issues. Why should one pay commisions (one way or another) to some private chinese owned but Indian govt-sponsored wallet company or a pvt cellphone company with no regulatory supervision or banking license for what is NOT a privelege: the use of cash (impersonal, universal, un-intermediated other than by the RBI, free of charge, and private: i.e., the very textbook definition of a 'right')

    To demonize cash, UNLIKE all countries in the world of whatever political colour, is to PRIVATIZE the ultimate PUBLIC GOOD: a country's very currency. (Large payments for a limited, specified-by-law list of goods and services are a different matter.)

    Besides, it WILL fail: the leaking of taxes etc will at best get restructured/re-channelised (into further capital flight abroad via over/under-invoicing etc, for eg.) MONEY has no colour and is fungible, after all. BLUNT policing of money and its use has always failed everywhere in monetary history around the world, because at best it causes excessive collateral damages. Money cannot on a blunt, universal basis be governed/policed or controlled by arbitrary govt/sovereign 'fiat' (no pun intended!)

    There are no short cuts but to, say, remove all stamp duties but instead have an annual stiff progressive property tax, plus inheritance tax on property, creating a digital land record register, releasing govt owned land as supply shocks to booming speculative land property markets etc etc etc.

    In any case, it is most doubtful all this was lost on the folks who cooked this up. Their motives were clearly elsewhere, perhaps a quick urgent need for fiscal buoyancy, for tiding psu banks over their near-insolvency temporarily, party political electoral motives etc etc?
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
    carl_jhonson likes this.
  7. SwifttoPunto

    SwifttoPunto Amatore

    Messages:
    78
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    As others pointed out discussion is moving away from purpose of forum. I will stop by agreeing to disagree.
     
    PradeepM likes this.
  8. PradeepM

    PradeepM Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    769
    Hyderabad
    Linea 1.3
    Dear All,

    This thread is to discuss FIAT India Sales, I would request everyone to stick to the topic.

    Cheers,
    Pradeep.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Racing_2012 and Inderpreet Bajwa like this.
  9. Tony

    Tony Esperto

    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    Kalamboli, Navi Mumbai
    Kuwait
    Grande Punto 1.2
    Please stick up to the topic
    There are other sections to discuss the other things
     
  10. Krunal Bhatt

    Krunal Bhatt Amatore

    Messages:
    149
    Location:
    Ahmedabad
    Ahmedabad
    Punto Evo 1.3
    Sales of Fiat in Dec. 2016 - 390.
    Improvement from nov. 2016 sales figure, but .... no need to comment.
     

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