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FIAT India Sales

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    @rusticnomad

    No, the Punto has led-strip tail-lamps already (and beautiful, high-quality ones overall), but that has not garnered it any additional credit. DRL-s into this already new+beautiful+high-quality Punto Evo headlamp assembly would seem too expensive (they will have to reengineer and test it to durability+heat etc standards)?

    What am hoping for, instead, is the ddct, possibly as an option? The FIAT/Alfa/Magneti Marelli ddct is fast, smooth, and with a great reputation in europe, unlike the vw group's dsg (reliability+cost) or ford's powershift dual-clutch. They had better offer it on the new Jeep c-suv next year, after all, with both a potential 1.6 mjd and/or at least the t-jet, say @ 18-20 lakhs ex-showroom?
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2016 ---
    One is a mere turbo diesel with barely anymore torque than an mjd, the other is turbopetrol that has similar torque but can rev with that torque upto 6000-6500rpm, needing few gear shifts no matter the speeds/gears and the acceleration desired! And a whole different level of ride-handling-steering and, especially, braking.

    ONLY in India would a pukka european hot-hatch be compared to a light-small-'fast' diesel! Not by you, sir, i mean by the good, er honest automotive 'journalists' at say overdrive and autocar. I know all about 'paissa vasool' as an ethos, but this would be 'uff, too much' ! ;-)
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
    asimpleson likes this.
  2. Krunal Bhatt

    Krunal Bhatt Amatore

    Messages:
    65
    Ahmedabad
    Ahmedabad
    Punto Evo 1.3
    That was the coolest thing in Urban Cross. And its not there. Great, !!!!.
    At least front grill looks same as the one displayed in Auto Show.
  3. Krunal Bhatt

    Krunal Bhatt Amatore

    Messages:
    65
    Ahmedabad
    Ahmedabad
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot
    The way you are hopeful about Urban Cross with DDCT, I am hoping for bigger diesel. Say 1.5 ltr. So, that it has excise advantage plus more powerful engine to match Figo diesel's performance.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    The Figo tdci 100bhp diesel just has a 100 bhp peakpower: it has more or less the same torque as the 1.3 mjd. In-gear i have NO doubt the Ford figo diesel is not a jot quicker than a Punto or Avventura 90 mjd. For reference: the difference in weight. (caveat: have not driven or driven in a new figo/aspire)

    But (test figures from Auto Bild India, who also compared the Avventura to the Ecosport 90 bhp tdci, with the very nearly same torque/rpm-range rating as the figo 100bhp one: the tdci was 0.6 secs quicker from 0 to 40 than the avventura mjd, but the mjd was 3.x secs FASTER in-gear from 20-60 and from 40 to 100.)

    So: not only do the Punto and Avventura not need the 1.6 mjd, there is no market whatsoever for it even for Maruti (SCross), least of all with the much-lowered petrol prices and the diesel subsidy removal. Besides, the new gst rates have yet to settle (or rather the politics and lobbbying behind that rate setting.) The 1.2(petrol) and 1.5(diesel) excise duty preferences may be done away with? In favour of a uniform but quite high rate (there will be at 2 if not 3 seperate gst rates)?

    But, i do hope the Jeep c-suv and whatever smaller Jeep (and Fiat twin?) b-suv model comes below it, localized, does offer the 1.6 mjd(+ddct?) as an entry-level offering, alongwith the t-jet (multiair, w/ ddct?) rather than only the localized but still going-to-be a bit expensive 2litre mjd+9-speed combination (taking the admittedly much smaller Skoda Yeti's India pricing as a bit of vague guideline.)

    To me, the main thing about the Urban Cross, apart from the 'by Abarth engine' would be the dark red 'leather' all over the interior! Very nicely decadent/hedonistic, truly a la Maserati, as well as Abarth!

    I predict that it will see few additional sales for Fiat, but that Hyundai will adopt reddish leather as a dashboard etc theme a year or two hence, and see huge additional sales as result!;)

    @Krunal Bhatt
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
    amitshedha likes this.
  5. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    But you have to agree that for 12 lacs, Fiat should have provided atleast ESP and all-round airbags, if they really wanted to showcase a top-class European product. I test drove the Figo diesel, and found it to be extremely composed, almost large-hatchback like, during the high speed city runs, and while weaving in and out of traffic at speeds between 60-80 kph. To most people, that would be more than adequate performance. The only thing I felt was it had a springy, if not heavy clutch. But the motor felt quite refined. It is a VFM product. But yes, if the Urban Cross comes with a DDCT for its Abarth motor, and is less than 12 lac, I will queue up!
    prabhjot likes this.
  6. amitshedha

    amitshedha Novizio

    Messages:
    38
    Pune
    @acechip Did you not find the figo steering too light? I never felt it was a ford, felt more like a Japanese or Korean product.
  7. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    Yes, they have veered toward korean standards with their latest iteration.
  8. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-ne...ity-vs-hyundai-verna-comparison-402958.aspx/4

    Autocar STILL does the impossible: rate the awful Honda City as the best, better even than the Fiat Linea t-jet 125s.

    I know all about Honda: my dad used to have a Civic, back when i had a Palio and even-before. That car was good looking and reliable, but crap (flimsy, expensive to service and with poor poor suspension+road-nvh and -holding for India.) The city i tested carefully before buying my t-jet Linea: it was launched at the same time. Vastly worse: Autocar is simply lying, not being-biased, lying, with no mention of the ridiculous up-pricing of the car+warranties/spares for gross-under-doing-of-quality of build and engineering.

    And autocar is not even the teambhp herd-majority echoing each others' brand prestige and armchair-ceo prejudices and biases.

    THIS is why FCA should withdraw the Fiat brand from India (mass market), and do so openly and formally, NOT through attrition.

    It IS hopeless. There IS a grave that has many diggers besides Fiat themselves (in their numerous past avatars), ready and waiting. The coffin's been readied by many besides Fiat themselves, there are far too many last-nail-in-coffin hammer-ers just-waiting, too.

    FCA would be very well-advised to call a press conference and put a stop to the Fiat brand in India openly, loudly and emphatically. So that this nagging, chronic, perpetually mutating and repeating 'virus' i.e., stigmatisation does not then infect FCA's Jeep(+Alfa Romeo?) future.

    We indians are deeply conservative, conformist, herd-centric people in life, religion, politics, film culture, education-culture, etc. Given to mantras, taboos, stigmas, shagoofaas, and lakshaman rekhas etc.

    There is NO way FIAT will be ever again treated with an even minimally-open mind. FIAT has not been so-treated, paradoxically, since they went all-independent with their own rather than Tata's dealerships.

    Too bad. It's just a very-minor tragedy-in-a-cutting-chai-glass, the mere failure of a mere car brand, historic etc in india though it may have been. I could've written 'the chronicle of the death of FIAT foretold' years ago.

    Point is, it was only partly suicide, it was also murder (by a thousand cuts of course.)

    RIP F.I.A.T in india.

    Mr. kevin Flynn will be wise to call that press conference soon and do the funerary rituals for the brand openly, proudly but sadly, mournfully. Perhaps chanting: "What could've been...." Also chanting: "Jeep Jeep...." and "Make in India, Make in India, but can't Sell in India, really Can't, sacchi!"
    acechip likes this.
  9. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    Autocar has always been doing this silly game for some time when it comes to Honda. Behaving like a bunch of starry-eyed idiots who used to sing praises of Sony TV or indeed Sony-any-crap until the early 2000's. I know plenty of such people personally.

    But I dont think Fiat should wallow in self pity and cry victim the way you suggest (press conf et al). You can blame the herd mentality, but thats how any developing market place would behave. We are not a mature car ownership country, most Indians are indeed undergoing their "first car" ownership cycle. So any comparison with other markets is meaningless. Until Indians run through several such cycles, this mentality wont change. It took an oil shock to nudge the Americans out of their V8 based gluttony and develop a likening for Japanese cars. And its still not a complete story- I suspect someone like Tesla will complete the rest of the story.
    Secondly, I dont see FCA inc interested in the India story in the near future. Even after parting with Tata's Fiat had numerous opportunities to re-establish dealership networks, but they did not think it worth the value.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    @acechip

    Imo they are interested in the 'india story', such as it is i.e., over-self-hyped-and-prachaarit-to-self.

    BUT: via JEEP (rs. 1600 crores investment in operations)+exports, and via Tata and not via Fiat. Also i suspect, like in china, europe etc: via the new Alfa Romeo models' cbu sales through Jeep/fca dealerships (in say 2019...)

    I agree with such an approach. FIAT has no chance of recovering any investments in all-new mass market models here, by now. Irrespective of how good those cars will hve been, or how big and wide ranging their marketing will have been.

    I just hate, though, this slow death approach, a death by attrition. The great historic-desi brand needs a decent, honest i.e., 'apologetic' burial.

    The cars and the brand still stand as exemplary and superior in many ways (mass market), the brand still has a certain distinct dna well-embodied in the Punto Evo, the Linea, the mjd and t-jet, the Avventura, and Abarth. If only to the knowing and knowledgeable.

    A good burial or funerary ritual will ensure that its 'good name' is redeemed and frozen-in-some-decent-state for a MUCH later (potential) coming back-from-dead.

    FCA must not let the FIAT name in India become a zombie one (e.g., as has happened imo to Chevy, to Nissan too in India, as well as to Tata who've as a result had to commit to as much as 3000crores for a rescuscitation.)

    Better to formally, openly and explicitly shut it down in the mass market, and keep it ("for representational purposes only!") present in the new, fewer but much bigger and better, Jeep/fca dealerships via d-segment-priced cbu-s and/or ckd models like the 124 Spider/Coupe or the 500X, and of course via continued service and spares support in all current places, if necessary via third-party (non dealer.) workshops.
    gpunto75 likes this.

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