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FIAT India Sales

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. kk27

    kk27 Amatore

    Messages:
    202
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Fiat Enthusiast
    I've been saying this all along, Fiat's strategy is spot on. They're doing the right thing they're simply fishing on the shores right now. possibly will only start to venture in slowly while building asset right at the heart of the Car game - Engine. Fiat is one of the few companies in world to have good engine capabilities since that's where the game will be in the future. Though I strongly feel their avoidance of electric may hurt them.

    This Engine game is where Fiat has a better deck of cards, so what if 50K brezza will be sold instead of Avventura Fiat will still be running to bank :). Isn't that success enough or only having thousands of models sold is called success even if they're utter rubbish in reality!

    Infact 600 being sold is more than enough, surely not all 600 are repeat Fiat buyers. Some percent will be fresh buyers, some repeat buyers who've switched to Fiat brand.... it shows while many consider Fiat to be gone, there's still some amount of people who don't hesitate with a Fiat.

    I recently went to Aurangabad & boy Fiat's clearly noticeable in that city. Why... probably the rough& hilly terrain & road conditions make people buy a car with better ability. Believe me I saw more puntos & avvys than Creta - & that's seriously an achievement.

    For those who keep a close eye on the sales numbs just for kicks - great, those who feel nos might dictate if they'll shut down - you should not worry even if you it really shuts down. When Palio spares are available after 10yrs so will your new Fiats, just enjoy yourself
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    http://www.autopunditz.com/

    710 odd total dispatches to dealers in march 2016 by Fiat+Abarth. Up smartly from last month! 15+% , imagine that. :hilarious:

    Total FY 16 sales are down, like MANY other firms, including several premium/luxury ones:

    20 odd % over fy15 at 8300 odd cars. The stupendous news is that on a per-dealer and number-of-models as well as investment-return (or lack of) basis FIAT is very far from being the worst of the several backbenchers.;)

    Total market sales growth is at a mere 5% following on from the paltry 2% of february, NOT a good performance at all for March, which being the last month of the FY usually sees a dispatches-surge from many firms. As usual most of the incremental gains go to....Maruti and Hyundai.

    Mahindra's shotup in dispatches again to be a clear #3....but that is small financial consolation since it has 2 all-new models and 1 totally-facelifted one: it's sales pickup does not appear to be anywhere near financial targets (?), and is of very doubtful sustainability, given new launches from maruti in these very segments.

    FORD dispatches have picked up in march, but the India- and brazil-specials, the Figo/Ka and its sub-4m sedan variant have more or less flopped.....again surely losing FORD India a lot of money. Honda's launched several all-new models and an all-new diesel over the last 2 years, yet down a lot already. etc.

    Maruti S+ HY = 64% of the market on their own.....and rising again in march. It will be notably higher imo by the end-of the year.

    This market's not gone anywhere but down (on a per-dealer, per-model and per-investmentRs basis) to flat since 2012....and is not going to grow, net, over many-a-year. And it is a near oligopoly of 2-3 firms. There is a recent desperate recourse to very-low-margin sales to taxi firms (uber, ola etc) in large numbers, even by Hyundai. i.e., EVEN these measly net-growth numbers hide the fact that PRIVATE retail-client sales are DOWN a lot esp in the lower segments.

    Why severely-loss-suffering-in-india firms like Nissan-Datsun, VW-Skoda, Fiat, Chevy, Tata, Toyota....continue to value it (mass market), and are (planning to) try-hard-again is difficult to understand, if not incomprehensible. It is no wonder so many of their dealers are in deep-financial-strife, and are having to discount-like-mad, including such worthies as BMW and AUDI.

    Until one realizes that perhaps exports of engines and cars + many thousands of crores of subsidies each in land and taxes from state governments (esp gujarat, and tamilnadu, to a lesser extent maharashtra) is what 'squares this absurd circle'.

    PS: Is it 2017 yet, Fiat+Jeep India? No? Why not?:p
  3. kk27

    kk27 Amatore

    Messages:
    202
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Fiat Enthusiast
    I have a grim feeling that Fiat will probably still come out in profits even if it brings in New Models in 2017, probably even if they don't for that matter.

    Another Money-pot for them will be the transmission factory, probably which will bring an up-shift in AMTs in India significantly.

    So end of the day, Fiat will still be going to the banks.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    http://www.autopunditz.com/

    It turns out that if one adjusts for all-new models the market is in a pukka recession, even in sales no terms, let alone on an ROI, or per-dealer or per-model basis, or adjusting for the depreciation of the indian rupee (very relevant to all the mnc firms, unlisted on the indian share market.)

    ONLY Maruti has grown sales ex-all-new-models: by 5 odd%.

    What is more the ONLY firms whose all-new models have worked in the past year or two are MS and HY+Mahindra (the latter very short of financial targets, it would seem?)

    Not counting the Renault KWID which is more of a first-mover, CUV-form-factor model at an ultra-ultra-cut-price. The decline of the Ecosport as well as esp the Duster once HY and MS entered the fray in their respective segments says a lot about the deep STRUCTURAL marketwide 'bias' against any firm outside of the dominant 2-4 firms.

    Am certain, though, that Honda and Toyota can IF they are very lucky with the product-planning and specification of their next-gen models CAN thrive too, but Honda's awful ROI with all their new models+new-deisel-engine etc leaves it doubtful that the Indian mass, large-scale-market is particularly attractive financially for any non-MS/HY/Mahindra firm, forseeably. Possibly, too, Renault could thrive longer-term, but here too ROI will remain awful for many years, what with the sheer number of utter sales failures of mediocre models from the Renault-Nissan combine, and humunguous accumulated losses to them already in their short time in india, already.

    FCA would be best advised in india to focus totally on Jeep, then, including, beyond the localized C-suv, in 2017 itself: accelerating the arrival for localization and exports of the sub-Renegade, smaller, more inexpensive model (10-16 lakhs).

    So, it is most imprudent for FCA to invest in new models for the FIAT brand, imo, unless they can sew-up lhd export orders from FCA in europe for say the new Punto/Grand Sienna (unlikely) or say a new Fiat Avventura b-cuv, rumoured to the twin of the aforesaid small Jeep? Maybe a better, bit-bigger variant of the Brazilian/LatAm MOBI?

    JEEP first and only, through 2018 (if the near-certain small-Jeep too is Indianised by end-2017)? If possible and required the 500X as a mostly-ckd model, for exports to Japan+Australia etc just like its platform and architecture sibling the C-suv? Fresh investments and launches in the c-segment or below seem to have near-hopeless prospects for FIAT, no matter how class-leading the new Punto+Grand Sienna will remain.

    Maybe the risk is lower than am imagining if export volumes+platform+powertrain-sharing via the Jeep small-b-cuv (emerging markets special) are good? Perhaps they'll bet on the new Punto etc, for that reason? IF they do they had better do something about sales and after-sales: i.e., scale up quantity (and quality) by combining with say tata+chevy, or (wish-fulfillment!) getting Suzuki to retail Fiats and Jeeps out-of-their NEXA network? Else the new Punto etc are perfectly pointless, it would seem obvious by now. The market-is-like-this-only in India these days.

    PS: 40 Abarths dispatched in march. Which is to say there are inexactly 0% 'driving enthusiasts' in India willing or able to put their monies where their mouths are. ;-)
  5. Turbothinghy

    Turbothinghy Superiore

    Messages:
    818
    Pune
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    prabhjot likes this.
  6. vinit

    vinit Amatore

    Messages:
    182
    Mumbai
    Linea 1.3
    I think, the moment any car company brands its car as an "enthusiasts dream "the "enthusiasts" in India looks at that car with an awe, have lot of discussions on it on various forums, but at the same time, simply shuts the door on any remote thought of buying the same. They think that the car is not for them and it can only be owned either by the super rich or by the car garagewallahs (pun intended :) ).

    Lets accept the fact that India is a risk-averse country and 99.99% Indians look for a middle path which will give them "this" also and "that" also. This is not just applicable to cars but to any other thing in our life.

    This "enthusiast" terminology can be extended to other areas also. e.g.

    1. How many music "enthusiasts" end up buying a great equalizer rather than just watt output ?
    2. How many TV "enthusiasts" have Plasmas at home ?
    3. How many movie "enthusiasts" see a movie only in theaters (rather than downloading or on a CD)

    This list can just go on and on :) And this is not just about the money. We, Indians, do not want to take those additional efforts also, to go for the best or uncharted paths. Char log jaisa karte hai waisa karo :) This is what we have been taught.

    And even if you see the modern history, how many Indian sailors went sailing to find unexplored islands ? How many modern technological and scientific inventions are on the Indians name ? Is there any "Made in India" product which sells like hot cake in the world market ? We need to introspect.

    Sadly and unfortunately, our "enthusiasm", and it may be in any walk of life, is only limited to discussing and/or dreaming. Acting on the same, NO WAY !!! :)
    Tornado, Revv, Raj_pol and 6 others like this.
  7. Murphy_Fiat

    Murphy_Fiat Superiore

    Messages:
    648
    Trivandrum
    Trivandrum
    Linea T-Jet
    in 2013, Volkswagen decided to shake up the segment by introducing the Polo GT TSI here. The enthusiasts lapped it up as it had a 1.2-litre TSI engine producing 105 PS of power and this coupled with the 7-speed DSG gearbox made it a fast car. Please note, I mention it as a fast car, not an enthusiast’s delight. A car needs to be more than just being fast to tickle the senses and make the driver feel alive. It needs to have a soul which sadly the Polo GT TSI lacks.

    http://www.motorbeam.com/2016/03/ca...is-the-indian-automobile-enthusiast-confused/
    Tornado, PradeepM and teja rs like this.
  8. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    495
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @vinit I would not agree with you entirely. Please understand that there are people who buy cars from the big three luxury Germans. There are also those who buy Jaguars, Ferrari's and all in our country. Yes the middle class (those who buy the 4 L to 12 L hatchbacks) are risk averse.

    For the specific case of Abarth - please understand the following points. Fiat does not advertise - and the Abarth is available in very select locations in India. Also for the TSI there is both a petrol and a diesel version - the same for Fiat would have probably taken it to 80 or 90 cars a month. Add an automatic to the mix and the sales go to maybe a 100+ a month so it is pretty good for an enthusiast hatch that costs 12 L.

    p.s. Please note that for an enthusiast car the gear shift absolutely sucks. The more I drive my Odin (completed a trip to Munnar this weekend - some 1200 km's) the more you realize how bad the gear shift is. Such a beautiful and stable car deserves a better gearbox.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
    dadasaheb likes this.
  9. vinit

    vinit Amatore

    Messages:
    182
    Mumbai
    Linea 1.3
    Please read my post carefully. :) It is about 99.99% Indians and not specifically about the Abarth car as such. :) In any case, exception proves the law. :)
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    @Raj_pol

    The GT Polo, tsi petrol or tdi 'smokey', sell at the rate of around 15+-% of the total Polo sales. Of these, it is totally clear if you meet tsi petrol owners that: most or all(?) are buying it for what they percieve to be its image (as if VW india actually were representative of german engineering, whatever that means), given that it is/was one the few cars to offer an automatic.

    The point is: there is NO market for driver/driving-centric cars, NO scope for a market-pitch based on ride-handling-braking-steering etc. Given risk-aversion and the bang-for-buck mentality with every criteria thrown into the khichdi of purchase decision-making: NOT even for high power/torque (witness the dismal results of the SCross 1.6 mjd, the powerful new Ford Figo variants and earlier the Fiesta too.

    ergo: a firm or brand is left to fight, really, only on the criteria (supposedly accurately measurable in advance) of (a) brand trust and vague-image (Maruti S, Hyundai) rather than brand-identity-values-heritage (like RE or Yamaha or Vespa....or Fiat)

    (b) resale, after sales, the company of a 'herd' of fellow buyers, generic commoditised feature-list etc.

    UNLESS one has the luck or the foresight to launch a first-mover, high-usp (temporary) model like the Duster was or the Ecosport or now the KWID or Mahindra KUV100.

    (c) FIAT has martketed the Abarth plenty, as it did the Avventura before it and the Evo too. Even more and certainly better. And the 'Crafted for Car Lovers' campaign, and lots of 'digital' marketing currently. The 'improvement' is slight, no more, in sales buoyancy over the last 6-7 months.

    ERGO it is not marketing either that can deliver the sought sales-number redemption.

    THE last leg for the sort of case you and other FIAT well-wishers make is, of course, the all-new model one.

    Now given (a)(b)(c) how the hell is this last leg going to be anything Fiat the brand and FCA the firm in india can stand on sustainedly?

    Hence proved that JEEP should be the total focus, and if possible and/or necessary the Fiat brand should be retired from the indian mass market (c and below) or completely.

    Of course, the JEEP model to enable that, say by 2018, will be not just the cheaper-than-Fortuner-and-endeavour c-suv but the sub-renegade small Jeep near-surely coming to India after its late-2017 launch in Brazil/LatAm.

    Yeah, if they can export the new 2017/18 Fiat models out-of-India in large enough numbers (unlikely imo), then it may still be worth the big-punt, else it looks pointless for FCA to again try Punto, Linea, Avventura segment models or below, marketing or not, automatic or not. Do they have the financial firepower it'll take or the bothering-to, given the very very long odds?

    of course, i hope the BIG export plans currently being slowly operationalised at ranjangaon include a Fiat or maybe even 2, and not just the Jeeps (they are likely enough to also ckd assemble rhd Wranglers and/or Grand Cherokees for australia+japan, etc), say for eg. the new Avventura b-cuv punto-cum-smallJeep-twin.

    That's the only way the Fiat brand can carry on its long old desi journey/viaggio for a fair few years more. And in the process achieve long, hard, long-way-off i.e., unlikely redemption in india?
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
    Murphy_Fiat likes this.

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