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FIAT India Sales

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. Vidhyashankar Kannan

    Vidhyashankar Kannan Regolare

    Avventura 1.3 90 HP
    Well said @prabhjot

    It is an open secret than all these reviews get bought. Which is why the truly transparent ones like Top Gear UK are so respected for their honest reviews, especially when they beat up their own British brands when they are poorly built or flawed.

    But this is a country where millions read these reviews and believe them completely. Its a little unfair when you see that brands build their power by buying a reviewer. But then, that's how marketing works right?
    prabhjot likes this.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    FCA sales in June 2015

    Evo+Avventura: 619
    Linea: 139

    Source: India Auto Report, in turn from SIAM

    NOTE: both the Linea and the Punto Evo(+Avventura) show an uncanny ability to sell less than or more than around these numbers, which are bizarely near identical to the figures last year, the year before last, and the year before that last too!

    Over this period you've had: new independent dealers, several ad campaigns, thorough refreshes, one notably semi-new model (Avventura), a new excellent website, big improvement in average ASS and spares+warranty quality/quantity, huge discounts......and yet the numbers don't budge.

    Incidentally, we also had more than a year of a sales de-growth/recession in 2013-early 2014 too, in the market overall, one that is still going on for all brands other than MS, H, HY, recently Tata.

    Ergo: It's the brand, and its historical inertia, mostly for worse, and for a few happy souls like us, for better!

    NOT the advertizing, the dealers, the ASS, the cars, their pricing or feature-list etc. All of which are on average hugely improved/as good as ever, if still imperfect, over the last 2-3 years, else the numbers would not have shown this downright uncanny stasis/consistency.

    One does hope, or rather wish, that starting with the Abarth-s, at desi cut-prices, and, eventually, the all-new Fiats scheduled for end-2016/2017 this all-too steady stable albeit puny foundation can be a springboard to, what?, a doubling of sales, at best?, which still wouldn't amount to any more than 1500 cars, ok (being wishful now), 2000 cars.

    FCA should focus on exports even of the all-new Fiat models, to accompany the locally-made small Jeeps outwards: the sales figures for Fiats in India are written-in-heavy-stone that's tied to FCA India's ankles and will not let the cars exit the factory let alone showrooms. ;-)
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  3. Vidhyashankar Kannan

    Vidhyashankar Kannan Regolare

    Avventura 1.3 90 HP
    Ahh, nice to see this consistency! June was supposedly a very bad month for all manufacturers. But come earthquake, storm, bandhs, inflation, new car models, Fiat seems to have an uncanny consistency in selling almost exactly the same numbers month on month for years now. :hilarious:

    This should be taken as a case study in premier B-Schools to correlate Fiat sales to consumer mindset. The natural expectation one would have is that if the biggies have negative growth, then the minnows like Fiat should not sell even one car. But this clearly shows that the customer base for Fiat is very different. Possibly the more rebellious, more independent, non-conforming set of populace who look for certain things in cars and get that from Fiat only. Otherwise, why would sales remain the same inspite of significant improvements coming in across the supply and sales chain?

    It is very clear that the masses have removed this brand off the shortlist, be in individuals or taxis. And one thing's for sure, even if the sales do double like mentioned above, it hardly matters as the numbers will go upto maybe 1500?! Hardly a topic of discussion. So let them keep supplying their engines, make a profit, pump in some money into their own brands and keep FASS alive for the enthusiasts like us. But the figures are uncanny alright.

    PS: and there will more Fiat bashing on the other forum. Even then, the sales are consistent ;)
  4. nitinkumardba

    nitinkumardba Superiore

    Fiat has lost the ground for sure. When they came back to India in the ongoing inning, they were able to hit 2.5K mark in most of the months and they have gone down by 75% at least.
  5. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Linea 1.3
    Its because they chose the wrong partners who actually care less given the fact this brand has that aura of negativity, all the more reason for non performance excuses by dealers. We know how a big time dealer from Mumbai ended it with Fiat as they separated with Tata and that explains how strong/er dealers can affect sales. Its lacking initiatives at company levels.
    That kind of restructuring won't happen unless Marchionne himself steps in and makes those incisive changes in hirings and culture.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    Time to repeat the 'anal'ysis of the Great Sales Number Fiat Opera. Ad nauseum, maybe: if so, apologies!:p

    I doubt FCA has the spare capital for many years' worth of huge losses-to-bear in propping-up dealers (quantity and quality) and doing large scale promotions/ads, etc, in order for the brand-trust to turn around enough so that even brilliant, charismatic all-new models can sell well.

    Only a strong e-commerce + independent, small, even third-party FASS set-up promises to break this chicken-and-egg vicious cycle: weak sales<--->iffy dealer process and hr and management quality.

    Supporting the prevalent exorbitant-real-estate-heavy and bigger service-centre operations in large numbers is not viable for Skoda, VW, Nissan, Renault or Chevy, let alone Fiat. ALL of their dealers in my car-mad town, Gurgaon, for example, are clearly loss-making and suffering a lot. Alongwith the Ford and even the BMW dealer too, i believe.

    If you examine the sales figures for this year on the management punditz site, it is startling how skewed the market has become, and the skew is increasing rapidly: only MS, HY, H and Mahindra (to a degree) are growing marketshare and sales, and that too only for a few blockbuster models.

    The Indian car baazar has clearly become a winner-take-all type of market, with market domination and pricing-power levels of nearly 70-80% for just 3 firms, and within that only for 2-4 fast-growing, 'superhit' individual models.

    btw, the Polo which soared in sales up to 3300 in May has crashed right back down to 2300 odd, still down hugely from 2 years ago, nevermind new engines, 'GT'+ dsg-s, facelift, humunguous advertizing, improving dealers and ASS, 0% finance schemes, and a brand that apparently has some notable 'prestige'.

    The incredible economies of scale that MS, HY, Mahindra (much less so) and, recently, H command (and in the d-segment, Toyota too) is increasing their market power, as it's translating into scale-economies for their dealers: in dealer HR and their training/experience/professionalism, spares availability, and service quality.

    Conversely, there are dis-economies of scale for the smaller brands, including the smallest: Fiat, that is creating a vicious-spiralling between the sales numbers on the one hand and dealership quantity/quality/coverage, on the other. Sales and service mis-recognitions and distrust in the wider baazar afflict at least 4-5 other brands too, not just Fiat.

    This is clearly a wider, structural problem in the wider marketplace, and not simply a firm-specific issue/difficulty/culpability!

    The recession in the car market that began 3 odd years ago (with soaring oil prices and hightened interest rates, party political consumer-confidence-sapping.....) has not ended for any brand other than MS, HY (and Honda.) The supposedly turned-around market has grown very feebly for the first half of this year, and it's still well-down than the sales numbers overall when compared to the numbers at the onset of the aforesaid slowdown in 2013.

    Ads alone will not break this quagmire. Neither will new engines, trims, facelifts, nor very much all-new me-too car models.

    Only by cutting dealership/sales and marketing costs via a big e-commerce and digital channel(s) strategy, in alliance with say 2-3 other firms, and going the Mumbai RS motors official-but-small workshop way, for eg, can this knot be undone, imo.

    AND: re-joining, even if on a selective basis, with the Tata Motors dealership+ASS network, if possible, since it is already commited-to massively and expensively for improvement by Tata, many improvements having already happened......??

    AND/OR: Giving up the sub-10 lakhs mass market altogether, leaving it to Tata via the JV, in favour of a smaller, better, bigger-city dealer network that supports only ckd-with-light-localization type cars (eg, say the 500, Abarth 500+Punto, the 500X, the 124 Spider, the Aegea near-D-sedan, etc) + only those localized-manufacture cars that predominantly are meant for export (the 'new Avventura' b-suv?). Perhaps a dovetailing with some or all of the new, presumably better, stronger, more profitable Jeep dealers?

    Kind-of like Skoda in India, with a mimicking of Ford's export-first-and-foremost approach thrown-in.

    Sigh.:facepalm::blackeye::dead::yawn: :p
  7. neoonwheels

    neoonwheels Amatore

    I too feel that FIAT should give up the mass market and stick to performance oriented cars + premium (C+-D-D+) cars and SUVs. Punto and Linea dont even get shortlisted by most of the people while buying a new car !! The numbers are not even close to calling them mass market products !!

    FIAT engines division is in effect funding its car manufacturing. So just call it a day and exit this mass market segment and be happy with Tier-1 city focused performance machines. FIAT anyways does not have much to lose !!!
    prabhjot likes this.
  8. Vidhyashankar Kannan

    Vidhyashankar Kannan Regolare

    Avventura 1.3 90 HP
    The only point of debate that I have is that while your suggestion makes business sense, it also means that common people like us who make up 90% of this forum may never really get to enjoy a Fiat car. The premium segment will be the rich or the status conscious who really won't bother sharing info on a forum. And the common man like me will be looking at Fiats and drooling knowing I will never get to enjoy one. So whether we like it or not, business sense or not, there will always be a need for the mass market products. Sure they can move the mass market production on a need or order basis keeping few dealers around only. Like the Maruti Gypsy and Omni. But never remove the segment as this is the most word-of-mouth segment, however small it may be.
  9. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Superiore

    Punto Evo 1.3
    I would not bore all with huge explanations. Of course they would be consistent in the numbers. They have the exact same cars for the last 3 years. So they sell the exact same :p.
    My thoughts are probably different from some members - having studied marketing in one of India's best B-schools, I cannot see any marketing by Fiat. Hyundai markets, maruti to some extent, Honda does.
    VW has atrocious marketing and Fiat does not. On top of that they have 2 models which is the least by any manufacturer in India - and Fiat should be blessed that they sell what they do.
    Oh well I do not have their stocks so I am not bothered.
    dadasaheb likes this.
  10. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    Autocar's appalling bias towards certain brands, particularly Honda is well known. I would rather go with the not so famous (and therefore neutral) folks like Motoroids, motorbeam (to some extent) and autoportal (to a lesser extent). OD and Autocar have divvied up the OEMs for promoting their products.
    Dr. Fixated and prabhjot like this.

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