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FIAT India Sales

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by amogh, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. nibedk

    nibedk Regolare

    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    @adisrini1103 Guess its a one off case. My Swift had 1.2 L Kms on odo and driven by multiple folks(me, brother, dad) and no gearbox issues till date. So we cannot generalize this. Besides that I have seen irrespective of the manufacturer in case ASS is not able to figure out root cause of an issue they usually blame the component and say the issue is there for each car. Take for example gearbox issues of fiats where engaging gears is troublesome. I had the issue and it was fixed at FASS under warranty. Now we have folks having the same issues with face lifted cars. FASS is not able to fix it and saying its a known issue and they have updated the manufacturer. Do you think if that is the case the manufacturer would not work towards fixing it or changing the whole component for such cars under warranty. Its nothing but the incompetence of workshops.
  2. adisrini1103

    adisrini1103 Amatore

    Linea 1.3
    well, I have to agree with you guys on FIAT's niggles.....
    but Guys i just told what the Service person told me there at maruti that all cars are facing this problem and are chenged in warranty with a better piece that just arrived....i dont know the rest of the case.. it was just news to my ears
  3. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Linea 1.3
    I wish they had the Gearbox and ECU and tuning like or from the SX4 DDIS for the Linea. Not that many chances to drive it at 110-150 which current Linea has no problem with.
    dadasaheb likes this.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    Niggles: just to be fair, a lot of it is a matter of informational filtering/noticing, since (a) Fiat owners are on average better informed, knowledgeable, vigilant and (b) vocal, posting on fora etc. Neither of which is true, speaking only averages here, of say Honda or Hyundai owners. And they sell far fewer too than say Hyundai let alone Maruti S, and so that very fact affects/skews the statistical strike-rate of niggles/issues.

    e.g., Neither the Punto Active nor the T-jet my family and I have picked up in the last couple of years, has any niggles at all, of course after very thorough PDI. Where does our experience fit into the statistical table of 'niggle incidence' on new Fiats, I wonder? Compared to the Linea my Dad bought in 2009, which did have several small issues when new, and the Palio Stile I had earlier which had no initial niggles but did see a couple of big-ish issues a couple of years later.

    I personally know a neighbour owning a Hyundai Elantra, and a friend owning a new Honda City who've faced several of them on their new-ish cars, especially the City which has so many still-unresolved/repeating 'niggles' and even more serious 'problems'. Likewise, one reads reports, just as with the Honda of the new Maruti Ciaz owners full of grumbles about this or that. Now though: who is to say where these particular niggly-problematic cars are in the statistical distribution of the large numbers of Hyundai, Honda or M Suzuki-s sold? We just don't know.

    The problem in our car baazar culture is that what are/were statistical incidence-rates that are not at all unusual or large or even of 'statistical significance': i.e., that conform to a 'normal distribution' of niggles, quality issues etc gets BLOWN way out of proportion with firms developing undeserved, outsized (dis)reputations one way or the other. VW-s are expensive to own and maintain. Tata-s are troublesome. Honda-s are reliable. Hyundai-s are high quality and fuss-free. etc.

    I guess that happens because of there are no neutral statistical-regulatory bodies providing relative informational certainty about patterns of quality issues, niggles and reliability of different types and degrees, like NHTSA or IHS in the us of a.

    This conforms to our 'hero V/s villain' approach in most of our other cultural spheres, from politics, to cricket to films: too many and too easy stereotypes, believed too strongly, and then spread/repeated through herd-effects of different sorts till they become encrusted, hard and unshakeable. Not that there is/was never truth to stereotypes, but just how much, statistically speaking, NO ONE in the Indian car baazar knows.

    And so stereotypes reign, getting ever-further reinforced through sheer numbers of new buyers, which is why the market-sales pattern is increasingly getting heavily skewed in favour of just 3-4 firms (upto 80% or more of marketshare).
    asimpleson likes this.
  5. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Superiore

    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot The gearbox is a not a perception - it is true. Let us stop talking like politicians and only try find negatives with others. The gearbox of the swift is definitely better than the Punto and this comes from some forum members even who have ridden both. And that is a big point to improve on when (if) they bring more models in the future.

    Personally, that my horn stops the music in between and that the boot always is shown as open is also not a perception. The boot issue is actually common for Punto's around the globe - just google. So, it is laziness that is stopping Fiat.
    prabhjot and Sailer_Punter like this.
  6. Sailer_Punter

    Sailer_Punter Amatore

    My Bro in Law stays in my apartment complex and he has 2012 Swift diesel and I can vouch that the precision in slotting and the smoothness of use is in a different level in Swift. Add to that the shorter clutch travel.

    what they have currently is what they have and nothing can be done but there is a definite scope for improvement in future models that too if they want to portray this as enthusiast's car.
    Raj_pol likes this.
  7. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    Ah but Raj am dead sure the gearbox is NOT even a minute tooth in the key to increased sales. Look, it's notchy, it's the good old Palio gearbox I think. Notchy/long throw: so what? Many folks like it precisely that way, google that, to confirm. I certainly don't mind. It is what it is: feelsome, rather than frictionfree, like a button rather than an icon on a touchscreen. Maybe I am bewildered by complaints about the gearshift feel only because I used to have a Palio. Just a matter of taste, nothing to do with either engineering quality or design or finesse.

    What matters is the gearbox's ratios and its weight. This gearbox is unnecessarily heavy, am sure, being older. As for its ratios, there are many who find the early gears too short, while I don't mind (on the Punto 75 mjd) since I'd rather get better fuel efficiency on this heavy car and in any case am not a boy racer, and moreover cannot be even if I wanted to, since one is never more than 10-20 feet from a car/bike or truck up ahead in traffic. The gearbox could do with a sixth cog, sure, but as we know it does not get in the way of 3rd gear and above highway torque, in-gear, where this engine truly shines.

    As for clutch travel, does that matter, once one is used to the car? Especially since the it's super light and butter smooth-progressive feeling? Well maybe it does. To be fair to the critics the clutch on the early Linea-s, pre-2012, was poor not least in durability, no doubt.

    But it is worth appreciating that Fiat has sold many tens of lakhs of Punto and Lineas over the years, here, in Europe, Turkey and Brazil. The 'rubbery gearshift' complaint is a bit of a case of trying to be or sound like a discerning automotive enthusiast when one often isn't, really, which is why it is such a common complaint on the Fiat threads on teambhp!

    Thing is: we want ever more of this, that and the other from Fiat, don't we? Forgetting sometimes that we don't get a large number of 'those, these and that too' on any competitor cars in this market, and that includes the VW Polo GT twins.

    Hell I'd love the ddct twin clutch, I'd love an amt option or the Euro-spec gearbox etc, I'd happily pay much more for them, just that I doubt it'll make even a small dent in the big fat sales numbers problem, or reduce the bashing Fiats recieve, usually on false premises, on say that forum or in reviews on that automag show.

    The market is much less dependent on such things in its decisions that you seem to think. Brand trust, gizmo-s, resale value, aftersales reputation, and looks are pretty much all that count for the vast majority: not gearshift feel or brake pedal feel and progression etc.
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  8. JohnyBoy

    JohnyBoy Amatore

    Navi Mumbai
    I like the 'notchy' gear of Punto. I bought a new Polo (5 months old now), I didn't like it mainly for the ultra smooth gear and steering. I don't feel I'm driving or doing anything. Drove it for 1 month and gave to my brother who was looking for a new car. And I'm back to almost 6 year old Punto and enjoying it.
    prabhjot and SOOZ_P like this.
  9. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Superiore

    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot It is funny how you try to defend every shortfall with Fiat. Heck, if you think everything is perfect, nothing should be improved then sales will also remain where it is correct.

    Bling - You say no
    Looks - You say no
    Gearbox - No
    T-jet - I am still not sure whether they will bring it
    Marketing - No

    Imagine they released the Avventura without a top version petrol. The truth might be something else - maybe they are just being racist and think we little people from India do not deserve a good product and so throw their old products our way like the FIRE engine.

    Look at Hyundai - we are their prime market and whatever they have they launch in India along with the rest of the world.
  10. dadasaheb

    dadasaheb Regolare

    MH 12 (Ranjangaon)
    Linea 1.3
    add to it that
    1. footwell space everyone who test drives linea or punto or avvy says his footware scraps with the dead pedal
    2. Avvy - not used the space freed by boot mounted fifth wheel.
    3. wolf can provide 4 maps, TML provides Eco, sport, city modes but not Fiat, they will give us only pathetic maps from Roman empire era.
    4. Ecosport provides atleast 10 one Litre bottle holding places, Fiat only provides two 0.5 Litre holders

    how one can defend such brilliant Fiat engineering which is not at all for the utility or comfort of car users ?
    kedarbendre likes this.

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