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Fiat India - Sales Thread (2014)

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Feb 12, 2014.

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  1. Mabams1826

    Mabams1826 Amatore

    Messages:
    179
    Erode
    ERODE
    Fiat Enthusiast
    Yeah! I know and I had mentioned that in my previous post.
    My point is linea will go up by 48k(as per dealer) after withdrawal of excise duty benefit , no discount for this month and on road price will be close to 12 lac in TN for emotion mjd.
    Same was sold at 9.8lac in December, anything less than 2000 for linea is not justifiable.
    Probably Fiat was not having that much inventory.
  2. tweeting_fiat

    tweeting_fiat Timido

    Messages:
    23
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Fiat Enthusiast
    Linea would have been a tough call for Fiat. Manufacture less and they would pay more excise duty for 2015 model, make more and they risk increasing inventory and selling 2014 models at huge discounts in 2015 (cutting profitability). Looking at these numbers I feel company discounts might continue till March (esp for these 2014 models). Btw, whats the excise rate change for Linea?
    prabhjot likes this.
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,445
    delhi ncr
    What is to be done? Given what we know:

    (a) the existing products are great, including Avventura. Even the Fiat bashers agree they are better than the best sellers at most things.

    (b) they are brilliantly priced, even without discounts: WELL below the best-sellers, for more equipment version-for-version, WITH class best warranties, and class best average spare parts cost.

    (c) the brand has a perception problem among the wider 'lay' public, EVEN before the several DIFFERENT herd-effect meachanisms (resale value? ASS economies of scale for ASS centres? my uncle says so? my friend says so? So many on the road yaar, must be good? my Santro was good so....? Autocar says the Honda City is better than the t-jet, so what if....? Can't go wrong with a Maruti/Honda/Hyundai, all my friends and my chacha says so too, and even my wife who knows nothing about cars says so?....)

    What can be done? Remember also that Fiat is not alone: the numbers look very bad, for many months now for most models from most firms, excluding M, Hy, and HY.

    (a) these are NOT retail numbers. Compared to past decembers of Fiat even from the Tata years, the dispatch numbers are actually not bad at all. Retail numbers are probably still around the average 1000+- they've been at for the last year OR two. i.e., BAD absolutely, NOT BAD relatively, compared not just to Fiat's own past sales but equally to the downward spiral in the sales of many/most models by most firms over the SAME period.

    i.e., NOTHING new here, just failed hopes and expectations. Both Fiat and we have to deal with this fact: this is the world's wierdest and most stupidly cut-throat marketplace, where a 2-bit firm like Suzuki is king, where a kitschy Korean nouveau riche upstart is the benchmark in premiumness, where Honda murders its own quality standards and brand-promises with their India-launches.....and sees sales soar, etc etc.

    (b) market, promote, discount, market, promote, a t-jet here and a t-jet there, a projector headlamp here and a touchscreen there...did I say discount? Deep discount? Well, you could offer these cars for 50% off and you still wouldn't see the missing sales surge!

    This is a market in which the Swift ADDS 8000 per month in sales RIGHT AFTER the revelations that it is zero-ncap, i.e., a coffin made of tin (with a Fiat engine though!)

    So what is our considered therapeutics for Fiat's sales illness? Launch 2 or five all-new models....and see them sell equally badly or worse? After spending hundreds of crores in the process? Really? If that's such an obvious remedy: why would they not have done it? Well because it is their money to lose, not ours!?

    What good have all-new models done Nissan? Skoda? Renault (one-trick pony, Duster)? Ford (one trick ghoda Ecosport)? Chevy?

    BUT: please remember, that is EXACTLY what they are going to do this year through 2017 following on from the Avventura launch, whatever its degree of sales failure (which we will know ONLY in Jan and Feb, since that is when most deliveries will happen: in the new year): Jeep Grand Cherokee(Ranjangaon-CKD-assembly) +Wrangler, followed by Cherokee (ckd assembly?), India-made Abarth Punto, t-jet Avventura(?), new b-SUV in 2016, all-new Linea replacement aka Grand Sienna in 2016, Jeep C-SUV in 2016, Jeep Renegade in 2017(?), the last 2 made and localized in India at Ranjangaon. And the all-new Punto in 2016/2017.

    Will it work in terms of total sales numbers? NO, of course NOT.

    Will it work in terms of revenues and profits (though they already are rather quite profitable compared to, let's see....everyone except Maruti, Hyundai and Mahindra)? I'll bet on it happily! Though you may not want to!

    Should they have had the all-new Linea here by now, the all-new Punto, the all-new b-suv too? YES!

    But those cars are not ready, for FCA's global reasons (conserve cash to complete the merger with Chrysler, Jeep etc)+Recession in Europe.

    Who among the Fiat bashers wants to put good-money bets on how those cars fare in this marketplace when they arrive in 2016/17?

    What about the claim that the products are NOT the problem! Those Fiat owners who bash Fiat also say their cars are great, they also say their cars are in so many ways the best available...and still insist on avoiding the 'Maruti in room': this marketplace is at best indifferent and ignorant of your cars, your brand and the automotive values they embody....and at worst actively hostile.

    They are trying...they will keep doing it, their 'game' is still not at its best, they are not playing to scratch, BUT nothing new has been revealed by these dismal sales figures for nov-december. This happens every nov-dec with not just Fiat, has been for many years. In fact this is one of the better end-of-year showings by Fiat in the last 5-6 years, if I am not wrong.

    The new year will still see the even-better cars (with a t-jet here and a touchscreen there) NOT sell that much better.

    We are writing them off much too early. This is only phase one of the brand-relaunch plan from 2 years ago by Manley and Enrico. That was a 5-year plan, you see. 'Picture abhi baki hai...'
  4. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    Mere dost, koi picture dekhne wala bhi to hona chahiye naa ? !!:(
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2015, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2015 ---
    The Avventura was launched in late October, and has had atleast 2 full production months to get good dispatches going (around 250-300 as per Prabhjots views). Assuming that the Evo held its numbers to around 500 , there should have been a net increase in Fiats numbers by around 150-200 in November and December. That not being the case, and Linea (surprisingly), showing some increase on the backdrop of discounted offers, clearly indicates that the Evo/Avventura mix is not the right one. They are simply too close to each other, and the only distinguishing feature in the Avventura is the GC, which the Evo was not lacking in any fair measure to begin with.
    And where is the marketing?? I havent seen a full page print ad for the Avventura showing its features - ever so far. We, the enthusiasts arent writing Fiat off. Fiat is doing it to themselves. Tata managed to get in 850 units of the Bolt this month, as a prelude to the official launch. I dont recollect Fiat doing the same with Avventura during September/early October. Why??

    VW maintains a solid 2.6K plus of the Polo, month-on-month. They may not be making money, but they are keeping the presence in the market. Their cars are atleast in contention (discussion) for a potential buyer.
    prabhjot likes this.
  5. Rituraj

    Rituraj Regolare

    Messages:
    381
    Jorhat, Assam
    Just 803 units in December! Classic case of "you reap what you sow". Any manufacturer that treats its customers like sh*t deserves this kind of thumbs down from the market.
    Raj_pol and vista7155 like this.
  6. SOOZ_P

    SOOZ_P Regolare

    Messages:
    316
    BANGALORE
    Bangalore
    Grande Punto 1.3
    With this kind of numbers, Fiat somewhere saying that we are happy with outsourcing engines, sharing plant with Tata, and just selling cars for fiat lovers. If you buy we are happy, if not it's ok for us as well. Jeep and other lined up things will be introduced with our own comfort. Anyhow we have targeted a small crowd that sector. Even if you don't buy cars from us, somewhere we will be with you through MS, chevy, Tata..
    It's time to except that fact and move on. With this kind of brand advertisement, customer treatment, slow to no reaction of customer queries and feedback, not seeing any better future for fiat CARS in india. They will be here with engines.
  7. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,445
    delhi ncr
    They have had an all-new launch, with another one coming up too....the Tata Zest, and the Bolt!:p

    Half of december's 4000 odd Zest+Bolt factory sales are attributable to Fiat's monthly numbers? The numbers don't look so bad then, do they?:D

    @acechip

    I agree, the Avventura, which is, as usual with Fiat, the best-in-segment vehicle of its type, seems like it will cannibalize Evo sales, and so will add nothing to sales net-net. We'll know for sure only in Jan-Feb.

    BUT: it was indeed advertised harder and better than any Fiat since the big and effective 'make the move' ads from a year+ ago. I've seen a number of ads on tv, several different channels, well into december. There were indeed full-page ads in the papers. There was indeed positive social media buzz. There were indeed favourable reviews. There were indeed a huge number of eyeballs for Avventura-related youtube videos.

    i.e., It's the opposite of what you're saying, it has failed to add sales over the Evo-on-its-own DESPITE not because of decent/bad marketing.

    Of course, one can quibble over 'no desi-s in the tv ad' etc, but the fact is they did indeed get the good word out there.

    To me that suggests that the brand's ability to have conquest customers from even Ford and Toyota, let alone M/HY/H is next to zero in the culture, such as it is, of this marketplace.

    i.e., it seems a good product (even if it is merely a variant of the Punto, which is good product in itself) and a decent amount and quality of advertising are NOT enough to add new, conquest buyers, net-net.

    i.e., there is a closed-minded-ness about Fiats in particular and Euro/American firms/brands in general in this marketplace, aka 'herding' of opinion and purchase decision. This closed-minded-ness has increased in the last couple of slowdown years: M/HY/H now control well over 75% of the mass market for hatches and sedans, an oligopoly-like scenario, NOT AT ALL seen in ANY other car market in the world.

    Having said that: they F!!-ed up hugely in not launching the Avventura first BEFORE the festive season, followed by the Evo, as you were already pointing out back in october i think.

    @SOOZ_P

    Am I the Fiat-gaon village idiot when i claim that their 'brand advertisement, customer treatment and reaction to customer queries and feedback' is much improved over the last year+ since they went independent (outside of Assam and WB @Rituraj) and so cannot be the cause of the missing sales growth?

    It seems old perceptions and disrepute refuse to die even if they're by-now much-less or not at all valid. It startles me that that is the case even among current owners who do or ought to know better. Just because the cars we own and love don't take-off in wider sales?

    What chance then that the wider Fiat-agnostic or Fiat-skeptic or Fiat-dismissive or Fiat-who? car buying public will come around?:(
  8. SOOZ_P

    SOOZ_P Regolare

    Messages:
    316
    BANGALORE
    Bangalore
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Yes, many things improved but is it improved enough to raise sale numbers? Result is in front of all. In a city like bangalore where for avventura, users are not sure of the delivery date. One of my friend whom i refered, he went on waiting and finally bought i 20 elite on 31st December without one rupee discount. I only drove it to his home from showroom. Though he was blown away with the driving dynamics of fiat like all we do, the outcome is disappointing. If fiat is really serious, the way they react is not enough.
    dadasaheb and prabhjot like this.
  9. rudresh

    rudresh Regolare

    Messages:
    264
    Hyderabad, India
    Mercedes Benz sold more than 10000 cars last yr. Probably more than Fiat. That makes fiat cars even more exclusive than Mercs on road :D
    VIJENDRA SINGH, Rituraj and prabhjot like this.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,445
    delhi ncr
    @rudresh That's funny! A close relative has just bought one. I'll get that 'exclusive feeling' twice-over, then, driving around.:p

    I think Fiat sold 12000 odd in 2014, UP, yes would you believe, UP 40+% on last year! :p

    The ONLY such firm outside of the gang of three (m/hy/h). i.e., in growth terms Fiat is the fourth ranked car maker in India, rather than second-last. :D It has a similar rank when it comes to non-export profits too! Funny.
    Mabams1826 and VIJENDRA SINGH like this.
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