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Fiat India - Sales Thread (2014)

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Feb 12, 2014.

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  1. dadasaheb

    dadasaheb Regolare

    Messages:
    374
    Pune
    MH 12 (Ranjangaon)
    Linea 1.3
    does Linea looks like a boot attached to Punto hatch (like dezire-swift, xcent-grand i10, amaze-brio) ? NO
    but Avventura sure looks like a Punto fitted with boot mounted wheel.
    does Ecosport looks like it is derived from Fiesta ? NO
    does Duster looks like it is derived from Logan ? NO
    even though they share a same platform.

    i would say Invalid comparison and examples given.
  2. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    496
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @dadasaheb Well you have taken my words. I could not have put it any better. Also, @prabhjot you always start with the perception being bad and my point is perception takes time to create and also efforts. Look at how different the current elite i20 is to the older i20. So they are making changes every couple of years. Now what about the Punto or the Linea? They look exactly the same with small differences which do not matter. Take the case of Honda- they went to the extent of creating a diesel engine specifically for the City because we Indians love diesel. That was created from nought.
    However the great company Fiat that it is cannot even use the engines that already exist in their kitty. So even though you are refusing to acknowledge Fiat is not trying at all. I will say they are trying if they dump the Punto and the Linea bring entirely different looking hatchbacks, SUV's and sedans and plonk in the exact engines that they use worldwide.
    If they fail then, I will agree to your point, not before.
    Also if you say they already had the palio gtx - that was the wrong time coupled with horrendous service and spare part cost. Now is a good time and yes the service this time around has to be good.

    Finally they have to ask the question - what is their aim?
    a)legacy, heritage blah blah blah
    b)Numbers and bottomline
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,449
    delhi ncr
    @Raj_pol

    I have in the family a 2009 Linea and a brand new personal 2014 t-jet. The improvements are myriad and thorough, from form (arguable for the outside, inarguable for interiors) to function to engineering to quality. The same thing can be said of the Punto Evo vis-a-vis a Grande Punto. The original cars were already good-to-great, the new ones are terrific, and look it too.

    Honda City? They are trying? An inferior and problematic new diesel engine that can still not come close to matching the mjd (all-told), and we should credit them for 'trying? Honda quality and reliability is DOWN at least 40% on the City, compared to gens 1 and 2, or the Civic. Same form as the old one, only with gashes, same suspension, same petrol engine (eclipsed by the t-jet and the VW Tsi), same platform, just a different, I'd argue worse, form/appearance. How have they done any more than Fiat has with the Linea and Punto comprehensive, not just skin-deep, facelifts?

    Hyundai i20? Same engine and transmission, same platform, LESS equipment, HIGHER prices, yes better suspension engineering but only relative to their own abysmal standards. A different form, yes, but so has the Linea (my new t-jet looks nothing like the old one), so has the Evo. Better aesthetically or not is arguable, of course.

    And so it seems: when Fiat do it, they're 'not trying'/lazy/uncommitted. But when Honda or Hyundai or Suzuki do it: brilliant, see how much they value us Indian customers, they give us 'world class' products etc.

    i.e., All we are really saying is that the one fails to get a big sales surge while the others run away laughing to the Bank.

    i.e., we are just repeating the herd-logic of: jo bikta hai voh acchaa hai (what sells is what is good).

    I agree that, for eg, they should've launched the t-jet on the Avventura, they should've offered a touch-screened and projector-lamped "Absolute" edition, etc.

    But to say they have not and are not trying real hard, or that the products or their equipment levels are themselves the problem is IMO to have it the wrong way around. It is the brand in its life in this weirdly cut-throat marketplace that needs so much more work for the terrific products to sell well, IF that is even possible.

    Which is why they are going with Jeep (a clean slate brand) to supplement the JV/engine/amt sales: they are giving themselves profits EVEN during the several years it will take to truly redeem matters in this market.

    Our market clearly has liked the Avventura form: everyone who is aware of it likes it, and does not, like us, think it's merely a Punto etc. Not that that ever stopped anyone from buying say the Dezire over the Swift, or the Etios Cross over the plain Etios (over 500 such folks every month for Toyota) or will stop them from buying a 1000 or two of the upcoming i20 Cross to go with the 10000 a month of the i20 elite hatch itself.

    i.e., it's the Brand, stupid! Not the brand as presented by Fiat, or as understood by the knowing like us on Tfi and elsewhere, but the brand in its life in the wider word-of-mouth, rumoured form in the baazar out there.
    Mabams1826 likes this.
  4. pdash

    pdash Regolare

    Messages:
    382
    Bangalore
    Mahadevapura
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Total Count for Dec 2014 is 803. Source team bhp. Evo+Avvy=616
  5. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    496
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @pdash Evo + Avvy is 490. 616 was for Nov. Well at least my EVO is rarer than a comparable Mercedes Benz in India. I hope I do get spare parts for the next few years as and when they decide to shut production which they will sooner or later.
  6. limraj

    limraj Superiore

    Messages:
    914
    Trivandrum
    Linea 1.3
    Evo + Avvy is 490. @pdash, you quoted Nov figures.
  7. PuntoMJD

    PuntoMJD Amatore

    Messages:
    126
    Pune
    Pune
    Grande Punto 1.3
  8. punto_emotion

    punto_emotion Esperto

    Messages:
    1,245
    Bangalore
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Though OT, relevant to present scenario:

    The 10 worst-selling cars of 2014:

    1. Nissan Teana - 15 units
    2. Toyota Landcruiser - 40 units
    3. Toyota Prado - 51 units
    4. Chevrolet Captiva - 63 units
    5. Hyundai Sonata - 97 units
    6. Skoda Yeti - 123 units
    7. Renault Koleos - 148 units
    8. Ford Endeavour - 222 units
    9. Renault Fluence - 306 units
    10. Nissan Evalia - 484 units

    Source: NDTV Auto

    PS: Fiat, we don't want to see you in the above list! :p
    jackharrisw and VIJENDRA SINGH like this.
  9. nibedk

    nibedk Regolare

    Messages:
    291
    Hyderabad
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    @Raj_pol @dadasaheb .. completely agree to your points. I am a Fiat Lover just like you guys. But I am not a fanboy .Just like in real real life we accept our loved ones with their strenghts and weaknesses same goes for our cars as well. We want our loved ones( Fiat as a manufcatures here) to improve on its weaknesses and get even better on its strenghts or core DNA.

    @prabhjot .There cannot be any discussion/debate unless we Fiat enthusiasts/lovers/fans accept that Fiat as a car manufacturer is doing extremely bad in India. Do not mix Fiat engine business or JV with Tata to show that Fiat is doing well or laughing all the way to bank with profits. No year on year comparision as well. YOY may look good but if we compare from 2009 during the TATA-FIAL times the numbers have reduced drastically since then form 25 K to less than 12 K per year. All this opening up of Dealership and service centres had to be done. There was no other way round for Fiat if they have to continue in India. This is not something we should be cheering about as it is one of the basic stuff that each manufacturer needs to do to set up shop in a country and reap benefits later on. Its not even 20 % of what needs to be done I guess to sustain in India. Its not how much profits Fiat is making? Its how much profit dealership/service centres are making. Please get in touch with TFIANs from eastern region where they do not have service centres/dealaership any more and Fiat really isn't being proactive to resolve their issues. If this low sales continues I am not sure how are dealership going to sustain. No point in having the best car in the world when you can not get it serviced properly or have to travel hundered odd kms for same. Thats the reason a lot of people opt out of buying Fiats and thats not HERDING. Thats just common sense. 99 % of the people will do that. Most of TFIANs who are from metros or bigger cities would not even have considered Fiat when they bought their cars if they were from smaller cities/towns. TFIANs from smaller cities are already facing issues in service support or have to travel to get it serviced.

    No new cars to show since Punto/Linea in 2009. Avvy well its depends how you look at it. For me its same as Cross Polo or Cross Etios while looking smashing. Punto and Linea facelift were pure duds. Looks wise they messed up, no change in engines/gear boxes, no change any where else. Well I am coming to interiors. No doubt this was the only area where they made some effort but screwed it here as well by not going full steam. Though nice looking its still behind competition quality wise. Not very practical as far as Indian needs are concerned. No bottle holders/ few changes made in the new interiors makes even less space for keeping small items like purse/mobile etc. Some places cost cutting is evident as in the door hanlde openers which was chrome earlier is now cheap black plastic. Please read my comparision between Evo and Punto 90 HP(mine is 2014 manufactured). To me both are exactly same machines with just some superficial changes. I like everything in Punto 90 HP except for the interiors but even with Evo apart from interiors look wise they have screwed up some stuff functionality wise or have done some cost cutting. I do not see any value addition over Punto. Please note that I have spent considerable time behind the wheel of each of the cars to be able to differentiate the changes. Will New engines or Cars or Designs make Fiat more sucessful in India? May or may not but no point in debating unless Fiat does something? We can discuss whether something will work or not only after Fiat decides to give us something else. Please do not put up Fiat plans for the next few years. No body plans to fail but they fail because they do not fine tune or revisit the plan. If something is not working then it needs to be re looked into. Fiat is just not trying and saying we are catering to niche market and will continue to do so. Ha ha .... Catering to niche segment with mass market cars ... What a joke? .. Swift and Elite its chief competitors are selling in multiples of thousands .... City and Ciaz are selling more than 10 times Linea .... Ecosport sells more than 7 times of Avvy even though its export which is given more importance by the manufacturer.

    All the above mentioned cars from copetitors all nothing but mass markets products. Punto/linea and Avvy are not niche products which ever way we look at them. Reva is a niche product. Will you accept Nano as a niche product? No it was engineered to be a mass market car and it just doesn't sell. No amount of change now is going to change that fact now. Same goes for all Fiat products in India.

    FIAT group may be doing great world wide but no point discussing that. Its doing equally bad in India. Unless Fiat wakes up and does something its future looks bleak. No point thrashing the market and people's mentality for Fiat not doing well. Fiat needs to adapt to market demands not the other way round. Market wont care about Fiat or any other manufacturer but would endorse something that meets their needs. We all didn't buy Fiat rather we bought a car which ticked all the requirements that we had. Just that the car was Fiat. Five years down the line it may be Hyundai or A VW or a Skoda or Maruti which ticks all our requirements unless Fiat really sits up and does something.
  10. Mabams1826

    Mabams1826 Amatore

    Messages:
    179
    Erode
    ERODE
    Fiat Enthusiast
    Really surprised!shocked to see such a low number.I am sure with highest discount in life time they should have better sales.As mentioned in team bhp article, its the shipment figure from factory and not the retail sales, hope its at least around 1000
    prabhjot likes this.
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