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Fiat India - Sales Thread (2014)

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Feb 12, 2014.

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  1. vista7155

    vista7155 Regolare

    Messages:
    306
    bangalore
    @prabhjot I am not nitpicking here but i am trying to explain my point of view, if somebody from Fiat goes through this at-least this will help them from waking up to the reality IMHO.
    Regarding the sales figure i have doubt here Punto Never managed to Beat Vista.
    Punto were sold 8000+ in 2009,7682 in 2010,11090 in 2011,8545 in 2012,6430 in 2013 and till last month sales figure was around 6600(Sales figure gathered from our beloved forum and Team-bhp) .
    Punto never set fiat India sales chart on fire :banghead: but Vista has manged more sales per month peaked around 12 K in Jan 2009 and Jan 2010 when Tata was at Best and still till this month it is hovering at 2.6K in-spite of Jan 2015 Bolt launch confirmation.
    By seeing the above figures we don't need any marketing Guru to analyse the failure of the product and find the Right solutions.
    If the management doesn't have the answer there is no meaning to continue in the position IMHO and anywhere in this world every company will do this but Fiat Italy may be satisfied with the revenues from Engines sale and AMT sales and allowing the Fiat India management to enjoy.
    Fiat is sleeping from past several Years and we are hoping that they will improve by 2016 with new set of products launch but if they prove me wrong i will be the happiest person in the world.
    I love my machine but i don't have any hope on Fiat India by seeing their lethargic attitude and i am very sad that if diesel cars sales comes down(already going down due to the oil price difference) it will be huge impact on Fiat India and will soon start reporting Financial Loss.
    And regarding the Comparison of sales with other hatchbacks everybody knows here why the below cars failed still i will mention it.
    1.Honda Jazz was superb with safety features in entry level model but still failed because terrible pricing and made I20 VFM.
    2.Sail UVA with dated styling such as Plain vanilla interiors and features example centrally-placed power windows and became market dud and also impacted due to the negativity surrounded by Tavera call back.
    3.Renault Pulse and Nissan Micra do we need to really compare this car with Punto they are Ordinary 3-cylinder petrol engines but diesel is good and they compete against Hyundai i10, Maruti Ritz & Honda Brio and both looks as photocopy and initially launched with missing safety features in higher trim and charged premium and became market dud.

    If we compare Punto with above products apart from Jazz(as re-launch on cards) we will be in wrong direction because Fiat should take I20 as benchmark for Fit and Finish,Features it offers and Swift(Maruti) for ASS and commitment in providing support to sold customers but here they have closed the center for East India and can they give this kind of treatment to US Customers no way?
    And why not now keeping Zest/Bolt as benchmark where they are offering Harman Touch screen ICE with AMT what is Fiat stopping to introduce it in their line up?

    Apart from this if we say other companies are facing financial loss we can debate on them and on their products for instance
    Ford got the winner Ecosport but they completely ignored India and started the export,now they are feeling the heat and going down entirely blame is on Ford.
    Ford killed Brand Fiesta with terrible pricing and there is no way for recover but old fiesta was decent success.
    Renault they cam up with Duster it was huge hit and still selling in decent numbers they destroyed themselves and Nissan too by photocopying few products and pricing it in premium range.
    TATA is partially coming back in business due to their past lethargic attitude they were about to destroy themselves but hats off to Karl Slym who saved them but it is very unfortunate that he is no more to see the turn around.

    Indian customers have given equal opportunities to every player here and appreciated their efforts with overwhelming response the best examples are Renault Duster,Ford Ecosport,Toyota Fortuner/Innova,Maruti Swift,Hyundai I20 and Honda City earlier versions and equally rejected the products which are terrible in price and bad product such as zen,sx4.

    Other companies FAILING, and LOSE money on their domestic sales operations, surviving on the basis of exports alone is very good compared to Fiat where they at least have some hope to survive due to exports,constantly trying to introduce new products and also with little bit of sales(huge compared to Fiat) to run the show but If Maruti stops the intake of engines from Fiat then will windup very fast and will bid adieu to us.

    If Fiat is So much scared of losing money here, better they can stop the car manufacturing and let them continue their bread and butter earning through engine sales, at-least it will save our hard earned money in spending on their products where the company is not ready to give us the service nor interested in our market to compete.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,443
    delhi ncr
    @vista7155

    The Vista numbers are not right: many/most (?) of them are actually old Indica sales.

    The Punto Evo compares very very well to what the market says is the benchmark. Its petrol AND diesel engines are better than the i20. Its interior design is beautiful (same as my new Linea) and everyone who has reviewed or TD-ed it (that I have encountered) has said so, fit and finish and cabin materials quality is much improved, and just is not a deal-breaker for anyone anymore.

    It's a five-star safe car in Emotion guise, better build, ride, brakes, tyres etc. BUT, here's the clincher: cheaper to buy, awesome warranty that is thrice or more longer than the i2o's, segment-best spare parts costs, much improved FASS. It actually has more, not less, meaningful equipment (tumble-forward rear seats, not just 60/40 folding, the i20 does not even have a distance-to-empty readout or a fuel efficiency one--MYCAR m.i.d is more feature rich, the i20 i gather does not offer a rear wiper or defogger in any variant below the top asta(o)).

    Just because their efforts are proving fruitless in terms of the needed and desired surge in sales, does not imply that they have a 'lethargic attitude'! I don't see any sign of lethargy: new dealers and FASS, comprehensive revamps of the Punto and Linea, Avventura, lots more and better advertising than in the Tata days, etc.

    They can do better of course, but let's not say the products have competitive deficiencies relative to the competition that then can account for the lack of a sales-surge. Not engines, not equipment, not looks and design, not safety, not pricing, or warranties and spares. Yes, it is true though that the Linea and the Punto have been around so long that despite the huge re-fresh they may appear old and therefore unexciting to some buyers. While the Hyundai-s and the Honda-s reek (superficially!) of new-ness.

    It is just that the target audience for Fiats is quite small, just that there are very few potential buyers who want to look beyond the M, HY and H and T, and those few have to be fought over with the Sail, the Micra, the Pulse, the Polo, not to mention the sub-4m sedans. Even for Tata it's proving extremely hard and massively expensive to compete with the dominant brands.

    We really cannot under-estimate the severe inelasticity of Fiat (and VW and Skoda and Nissan...) sales, that needle just can't be moved as easily as we think (launch this model or that engine, offer touch screen, full page ads every other day etc). In the near term. In fact as the sinking sales numbers across the board for nearly all models from so many firms shows, the elasticity of sales is big ON THE NEGATIVE SIDE.

    Incrementalism is the only financially viable option for Fiat: till the 2016/17 all-new launches. Meanwhile brand-trust and reputation re-building. An unsatisfactory, ambiguous Chicken-or-Egg situation it will remain till that is accomplished.

    After which, only then we'll know for sure whether Fiat should just focus on Jeep, Maserati etc sales in India to go with the via-Tata and via-Maruti business.
    jumu likes this.
  3. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    A perennial underperformer like Fiat has to undertake more than double the efforts than its established competitors to even prove itself worthy of the market. And therefore equip and enhance its cars in every which way. Adding a touchscreen nav may not send the sales rocketing, but it will demonstrate additional affinity to the market which is now fancying that particular feature. Its just like the case of VW equipping all its variants with twin airbags. Hasnt set the sales chart on fire, but has obtained bragging rights in terms of safety. The way @prabhjot is describing the strategy, it is a case of doing the minimum to stay afloat until better things are expected in 2016. In my opinion, thats just wrong. Each year, Fiat India has to build its strength layer by layer to bolster its chances post 2016. Any lack of effort now will cost them even more at that time. If they care, of course. Because it wont be too long before the AMT and the 1.5 MJD will make their way in the competititors cars, and Fiat will be left wringing their hands as usual.
    And I disagree that Fiat has done enough marketing of its cars in 2014. If people are completely unaware as to whether Avventura is launched or not, then thats not good enough. Why doesnt Fiat conduct an offroad event ? Offer the Avventura test drive on rough tracks at the outskirts of major cities, invite all possible sales prospects ?
    Imagine, I got a call yesterday from an MSIL dealer from where I purchased my DZire back in 2008 (and sold it) , asking whether I was interested in new car offers. Thats the kind of outreach required.
    jackharrisw, dadasaheb and prabhjot like this.
  4. vista7155

    vista7155 Regolare

    Messages:
    306
    bangalore
    Vista sales may be 50% of Indica sales but comprehensively beating Punto(what i have recorded is yearly sales) Fiat is absolutely lethargic i can bet you on that by below points.
    1.what fiat have done for East India Service where our fellow members are writing mails to CEO and still they are giving assurance of new ASS but nothing has materialized, they left TATA JV in Jan 2012 but from past 2 years they are unable find a ASS for the customers is this is the encouraging attitude of OEM where they are dreaming of competing with others.
    2. What strategy they have applied to arrest the going down sales of Punto Evo\Lineas apart from initial adds nothing much now and already huge discounts are out and if you want to sell it at that price why the hell you are giving discounts instead cut the price and sell it.
    3.Here there are no specific Target audience for Fiat their products are mass products and in india every is body free to compete if we consider there is herd mentality here then why duster,Zest and Ecosport considered as successful model we can't simply tell that Fiat has everything correct and mass is bad to recognize it.I have already given enough examples with facts that Products and Car companies how they were successful in pulling of the deal and also how they screwed their products with attitude.

    Change is the need of the hour for Fiat it may be adopting aggressive towards ASS setup or marketing or innovation.
    Nokia was market leader for long time everybody was struggling to sell the mobiles once Andriod arrived Samsung brought the right products with right price and finished the market leader.

    Still if somebody believes that fiat is going in right direction, let them think so and enjoy it by not accepting the bitter truth\Reality.
  5. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    495
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot

    A few points where you are absolutely wrong.

    1. As I mentioned the 1.2 Fire is no match for the 1.2 from Hyundai. (67 horses against 82 and torque figures of 96 against 115). This is plain science and saying otherwise is well plain making no sense. The Emotion as I mentioned in a previous post is overpriced. (primarily due to excise).

    2. Another colleague in the forum has mentioned that we do not always make cars to race around. If I consider Bangalore peak hour traffic then the only car that should ever sell here would be an Alto. Car buyers do not buy that way and car markets do not function that way.

    3. The laziness of Fiat - consider the music systems in the grande Punto. How long did they have and did they change it no?

    4. The T-jet - well nobody knows about the T-jet. Their marketing has been patchy at best. Only the VW guys make worse ad's. The recently ad's from VW make me cringe. Only the Germans can be so bad.

    5. ASS - Really with the entire north-east being provided pathetic service and I remember another email (no service centers in Andhra or was it Telangana). You underestimate the power of such bad marketing. One bad review in Zomato and entire restaurants are closed.(A pub was closed in Gurgaon because of one incident - just one) and Fiat has hundreds. FYI...VW has far better and grander service center's in Guwahati right in the middle of the city.

    6. With the increase in folks preferring automatics, Fiat lags in this area also - they are selling to others but not in their cars.

    In an ideal situation they would have launched the 500X in India too and created a huge buzz.

    Just my two cents.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,443
    delhi ncr
    @Raj_pol

    The 1.2 Fire actually sells a surprising percentage of Punto sales. It is cheaper than its competition, and if only you'd drive it you'd know that it's mighty fine as a city car, not even counting the rest of the Punto package.

    The 1.4 Fire is priced right like the i20 elite petrol. The correct comparison is with the i20 elite asta (o), which is priced at 6.7 lakhs, ex-showroom. As we know, by the time you throw in the exorbitant Hyundai charges for warranties, and discounting from Fiat dealers: the Evo 1.4 offers a much better engine, at a significantly lower cost than the i20. Incidentally, the underpowered i20 elite petrol outsold, and that trend continues o the elite, the good diesel one.

    The point is only that: Fiat's missing sales-surge has NOTHING to do with either engines, equipment levels which are fine, or pricing, or even the reality and truth of dealers and FASS. It has everything to do with a big shake-out in the industry when it comes to brand-trust, over the course of the last 2 years' recession in the car market. Buyers have herded themselves under the sign of M, Hy and H in these segments (and under T in the D segment) upto 70-80%+

    @vista7155

    The market is witnessing extreme herding (whether through the 'resale value kitna hai?' mechanism, or otherwise). The Duster and Ecosport are exceptions that prove the rule, since they are both first movers in their segments, having a couple of years of a 'honeymoon period' WITHOUT competition from M, HY, H and T.

    Yes, ideally, the 2016 Fiat b-suv should have been here already to fully challenge the Duster and Ecosport, rather than the Punto-based Avventura. But then the latter will am sure do its job of adding 400+ sales a month through 2015.
  7. dadasaheb

    dadasaheb Regolare

    Messages:
    374
    Pune
    MH 12 (Ranjangaon)
    Linea 1.3
    agree that customers have the herd mentality, but does FIAT is doing any thing out of the box which can be attention grabbing for the sheeps in herd, BIG NO

    just today morning i came from Pandit Auto Pune, they are offering Linea MJD emotion at 9.65L without LBT
    if they have launched it at this price and marketed the price figures which competition is having at least 12 L onroad price of Honda City and Ciaz for the top end diesels. that would have doubled the sales of Linea IMHO.

    to attract herd it needs the best things in hardware with the moneyware under cutting all the competition.
    nowadays samsung is feeling heat from Moto and MI and last 2 quarters profits are falling by big %.

    i will bet that herd will change the direction,
    1. have the best kmpl beating opposition with at least 3 kmpl
    2. have the power output on paper by at least 20 HP more than the competition
    3. give more bells and whistles than i20
    4. advertise as all the spares are available at good price.
    5. people have just considered looks, ground clearance and kmpl for the success of duster and ecosport over other SUVs like scorpio etc.
    6. I do not see anything more offered by FIAT other than GC and discounts over the competition for Evo and Linea.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
  8. jackharrisw

    jackharrisw Amatore

    Messages:
    146
    Chennai
    Your point is completely wrong. I20 cannot/should not be taken as a benchmark. In no way I can see I20 as a better product than Punto except Plastic quality and Space. Infact Punto should be taken as a benchmark by I20 for Puntos solid build, ride quality, handling, steering precision and so on. If you analyze each product has its ownset of negatives and drawbacks.

    Swift(Maruti) for ASS and commitment in providing support- I agree to this point. But, what about tin can build quality, Narrow tires, poor brakes and absolutely no features in lower and mid variants, heck Swift doesn't even have a bluetooth audio till now.. I guess Punto is cheaper than Swift to Service because of it's long service interval. And you say here that we should take these products as benchmarks?

    We all should understand onething that, FIAT products were always better and value for money when compared with products from other manufacturers.

    If people take FIAT as an option and test drive while purchase, and if they later drop it saying the product is not good we can blame FIAT. But, how about FIAT is not even considered during purcahse decision. Only herd mentality of Indians is to be blamed and not FIAT.
    prabhjot likes this.
  9. gazgotta

    gazgotta Amatore

    Messages:
    110
    Namma Bengaluru
    Namma Bengaluru
    Grande Punto 1.2
    One of the concerns for FIAT is its negative PERCEPTION in mass and in Indian market PERCEPTION is very key element, many buyers don't even consider it/scared to even try,or worse they don't even know the FIAT car portfolio :confused:.

    Face-lifted I20 Elite clocking 10,000+ , Face-lifted Punto Evo struggling to even cross 1000. 2 cars competing in same segment of premium hatch and there is such a mammoth gap in sales numbers, it shows there are serious issues with FIAT strategies. I20 Elite clocking 10,000+ points to Indian buyers increasing sentiments to buy premium cars, if HY can cash on it what is wrong with FIAT with such a solid product as PUNTO.

    This discussion of wrong FIAT strategies, is ever going and no improvements shown in sales figures. It also affects new car buyers to look at a companies low sales figures continuouslyo_O. Few months old PUNTO/LINEA already loosing steam and FIAT resorting to heavy discounts already is very disturbing:banghead: . It is really sad to see such a fabulous product as PUNTO not able to get its due in Indian market.
    With TATA Bolt, HONDA Jazz lined up for launch situation will become tougher for FIAT for sure.

    The question is , does FIAT really wants to FIX this issue ??? :confused: OR is just happy with 1000+ cars being sold and rest of the profits coming from other sources(engine etc.). How long it will take for FIAT to learn n respond ?
    prabhjot likes this.
  10. dadasaheb

    dadasaheb Regolare

    Messages:
    374
    Pune
    MH 12 (Ranjangaon)
    Linea 1.3
    I do not agree with the points above of a FIAT fan , i am also one but i want them to do better in India and not shut shop here again.
    Does the Evo have better kmpl, push button start, reverse package of camera and sensors ? NO
    sheeps in herd does not give any value to your handling, ride and steering feedback, infact many will say that its heavy for city driving.

    as far as i20 concerned, there should be equal dealers of Fiat as of Hyundai, and Fiat should give them the better car than i20 or swift not from the enthu public's perspective but from the sheeps in herd perspective
    I bet it will do wonders.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2014 ---
    one BIG difference is that gearbox City, Verna got 6 speed MT does Linea have ? NO, 6th gear will always boost the FE and ARAI figures also.
    Even i20 Diesel have 6 speed MT does Evo have ? NO.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
    prabhjot likes this.
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