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Fiat India - Sales Thread (2014)

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Feb 12, 2014.

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  1. Mabams1826

    Mabams1826 Amatore

    Messages:
    179
    Erode
    ERODE
    Fiat Enthusiast
    760 is a very sad number, considering Aavy is just launched.As I have mentioned in Ciaz Vs Linea thread the problem is not only with Fiat but also with dealers( at least in TN). old GP diesel emotion is just above 7 lac and the dealers are hardly making any noise.
    Also 9.8 lac for Aavy diesel Emotion, I feel is personally an over kill. One can get pre facelift Linea for that price. People will look Aavy as a dressed up Punto evo. It's definitely costlier by a lac.
    Fiat is defnitely missing the game by not launching any vehicle in the mass market segment. If it has to retain the dealers they have have some decent sales to survive.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,453
    delhi ncr
    There IS herd mentality: it is not a question of complaining, it is a question of taking that into account when you do product planning, pricing strategy, etc...and most of all when you decide to re-work your brand's virtual (styling, identity--youth, adventure, speed, machismo V/S sober householder etc etc) as well as real (dealers, ASS etc) identities.

    Adding gadgetry and ABS across variants will make no difference whatsoever. The companies you cited as 'trying' are actually FAILING, and LOSE money on their domestic sales operations, surviving on the basis of exports alone, for now. They have BIG accumulated losses in Indian domestic sales operations, while Fiat in India actually MAKES good money, even with these supposedly dismal sales, and without huge exports sales.

    btw, the Punto has over its life sold better than many cars (Jazz? Sail u/va? Renault Pulse? Many months: Nissan Micra? Many months: Tata Vista?). It may not have been anywhere near having the malai-makhan of a Maruti Swift or a Hyundai i20, but it has NOT been a sales failure, but has pretty frequently outsold, including many months this very year) several of its competitors.

    That is still, admittedly, not enough: but it is useless to, like some motivational speaker/guru, say 'try harder', 'be aggressive', without recognizing that NO MATTER WHAT YOU (or others) DO a large part of your target market (i'd say at least 70% but maybe as high as 90% is simply beyond persuasion or seduction, since they have been coralled/herded i.e., are alomost 'owned' by one or three East Asian firms.

    @unleash_thunder That is exactly it: Fiat have (relatively successfully, I might add and bet, wait for the January-Feb sales numbers) launched an exciting and intriguingly different-to-Evo version of it, the Avventura. Even if the Evo's steady regular numbers are lower than the first two month's 800-1000 rate (nov-dec numbers are just inventory reduction months, and have seen the killer launch of the Swift facelift, the real numbers reveal themselves early in the new year), if you add the Avventura's numbers to it it remains very likely that Fiat will have net-net grown the Punto's sales upto and beyond 1000.

    Meanwhile, as you say: the idea is to keep the brand refreshed, to complete the dealership expansion etc. The real moves come in 2016. We cannot expect them to launch this car, that engine and that trim level UNLESS the WHOLE brand re-launch process is complete. That will take at least most of 2015.

    It is good money after bad to invest in all-new launches: the seperation from Tata is not even 2 years old, most dealers are still small and new and inexperienced, some are still to come (e.g., in the East of the country).

    And: the Avventura IS indeed a meaningfully different, and differentiated product, both to the Evo and to its competition. How the hell does it matter that its platform, engines et al are similar/identical to the Evo and the Linea?!

    That is not something one ever reproaches any other car maker for. From Maruti to Audi and BMW: shared platforms and engines and transimissions and interior dashboard design and driving feel etc etc are shared across, often, 3 or 5 different 'seperate' models.

    The 3 Fiat models are good enough as they are to see Fiat India through the brand and dealership/FASS rollout and relaunch and rebuilding phase. Between them, they have been selling at a low but steady average of around a 1000 a month. With some of the planned tweaks (t-jet Evo, Abarth-s, maybe AMT-s, likely 1.5 mjd on the Linea etc) and with marketing (they have advertised both the Evo and the Avventura a fair bit and not that badly at all, both on tv and on the internet/social media) they should be fine through to 2016!

    We keep forgetting how much bigger Fiat's Indian revenues and profits are than what just the sales figures might reveal! (JV with Tata, in-sourcing and exports of components, engines and AMT-s to Maruti)
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2014 ---
    Of course, the Evo ONLY has the following over the Jazz or any of its competitors, and still its does not sell that well, though it outsold the previous Jazz 20-to-1 ! : styling (your and my classical-design-study G Punto is less ageless than we imagine in this car baazaar), ride, handling, steering, braking, alloys, tyres, pricing, warranties, honest spares and ASS charges, build, safety, electronics (MYCAR v/s the Honda City MID is a no contest). It will have the measure of the Jazz for everything except rear space, and fuel efficiency, achieved through paper-thin build, structural chassis compromises and skinny tyres (the Honda City, 'this is a mere third world but aspirational market' strategy.)

    The Punto Evo will just remain a BETTER designed and engineered car, period.

    But I agree, the Jazz will join the other East Asian brands is outselling the Punto (the Polo, the Micra, the Pulse, and the Sail, too) many times over.

    Just don't blame Fiat for that! ;-)

    What really delights me on behalf of Fiat in India is this: the very probable success of the Bolt, to follow on the success of the Zest, in each car of which Fiat has a huge, maybe 50% (?) financial share. Tata (and Mahindra) are the only ones with the wherewithal in the short term to dampen the rising utter dominance of the 2-3 Jap and Korean firms.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
    unleash_thunder likes this.
  3. gopscreative

    gopscreative Amatore

    Messages:
    215
    Chicago
    Well, still with those sales numbers , members are still defending Fiat!! revenues from engine sales will not be the same in the forthcoming future. If they are just happy with these sales , what is the need for selling cars?
    Lets take Microsoft as example. Its just like Fiat selling their OS , but other manufacturers are making profit in equipment part. If we take look at their profit its dwindling year by year. Now its trying hard to sell their surface and Lumia(nokia aquired), but still not even able to capture 3% of market. And they know very well that just being a OEM OS provider is not a good sign for future sales.
    Fiat is in the same boat.Although Chrysler acquisition has made the company establish its global foot print, its the sales from the emerging markets which is the way for an automobile to establish its long term strategy.
    Now as forum members we can defend FIAT as much as possible, but FIAT is really worried. its shown in the huge discounts thrown away. Ultimately its idea of setting up dealerships first and sales will be in vain , as the dealerships wont survive without getting huge numbers and the rising costs of maintenance will ultimately force them to quit.So , back to square one!! No dealerships and no sales!! the it should be RIP FIAT INDIA cars!!
    The need of the hour is out of box thinking. Get some things which are not established in India and grow over it. As I have mentioned earlier it may affordable AWD, cheapest AMT or ground breaking engine technologies with segment boasting mileage, or 7 years of cost free maintenance. Just making some minor face lifts or putting punto on steroids is nothing but waste of money and time!!
    vista7155 likes this.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,453
    delhi ncr
    @gopscreative

    The sales chart is not a spectator sport, it is irrelevant whether we 'blame' Fiat or we don't, there's no blame-game to be played here.

    The question is: what should Fiat do to improve its own-brand sales GIVEN the nature of culture among most buyers of the Indian car bazaar, and given the 70%+ marketshare in these segments of the 3 three oligopolistic Jap and Korean firms, given also the fact that Fiat's engine+amt+Tata JV factory sales are increasing, and are very far from being threatened for many a year. In fact, FiatChrysler may well merge/acquire/tie-up strategically with Suzuki globally. So: what is to be done?

    To say new models is to beg the question, since they've just launched a 'new' model (Avventura) and will soon be launching an indian-made Abarth Punto too, possibly an Evo t-jet too, quite likely the 1.5/1.6 mjd too next year on the Linea and have commited to several all-new launches in 2016.

    So: car sales numbers are not a 20-20 IPL cricket match, more like an unending test series. Fiat's well in the game: my local dealer's sales have increased hugely (off a low base of course!) since the Evo launch and especially the Avventura. Re-building and re-launching brands takes time and is much harder than just launching a new model or a new engine, they're on track, i feel.

    Till we see the end result after the 2015 incremental actions (t-jet Punto etc), the 2016 launches, and the Jeep launch success/failure, blaming or not blaming Fiat is irrelevant.
  5. Kapalin

    Kapalin Novizio

    Messages:
    25
    Chennai
    Linea T-Jet
    Today in Hindu news paper second page. I don't see these quite often

    WP_20141213_07_51_09_Pro.jpg
    Aviral singh, prabhjot and rishike007 like this.
  6. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    497
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot I bought the Punto at almost full price (minus a few thousand bucks) and I am quoting from the time it was released. I would probably be one of the first guys to book the Punto. Also this leads me to another question - if you have to provide a lakh rupees discount to the Linea why not sell it at a lower price from the start? At a 2 lakh discount I would have bought the T-jet. These are the kind of stupid marketing that also irritates their current customers. Get people talking about it. I am quoting Bangalore prices from the month of Sep when I bought the car. Agreed, engines do not directly help but there must be something you do. Polo has got a 1.2 so they get excise benefits. Why not Fiat get a 1.2? if you are bothered about India, you would play by Indian rules.

    Car Compare.jpg

    Even at current rates almost 80K more than the segment leader. Yes they are better, but Fiat can shave a lot of the costs by plonking a 1.2. See my peeve is not at engines, quality, handling etc etc. We both know the Punto selling 600 pieces and the Swift 17,000 a month is absurd. My peeve is that for me, Fiat is not even trying.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2014
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  7. Mabams1826

    Mabams1826 Amatore

    Messages:
    179
    Erode
    ERODE
    Fiat Enthusiast
    Same concern for me especially, to give a discount of 1 lac to vehicle launched just 10 months back is very disturbing and 30 k discount on evo which was just launched.
    With Aavy also I am sure that Fiat would give heavy discount 1 yr down the line.
  8. fiat_fan

    fiat_fan Amatore

    Messages:
    185
    Calicut
    Yes, We know that, but for a person who test drive for the first time, the drivability and ergonomics really matters.
  9. rishike007

    rishike007 Esperto

    Messages:
    1,416
    Mumbai-Pune
    Pune- Mumbai
    Grande Punto 1.2
    In first time, judging the ergonomics & drivability the person should have driven cars before. But the first time buyers are saying this mean LOL :)
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,453
    delhi ncr
    @Raj_pol

    BUT: they ARE trying!

    What is the Evo facelift (with terrific value of the best sorts) from cheap 1.2 Fire, which is a plenty good engine (drive one to know! not a racer but...better than the segment best-seller i20 elite petrol) to mjd 90 hp mjd, the latter again much cheaper than the i20 elite asta (o) to buy, for warranties, spares etc). And as you know, it is still class best at so many things, and even better than before in several areas from ride quality, nvh to warranty and price, even before discounts)?

    They ARE offering the new Linea (I own one) with the t-jet, loaded with equipment to go with class-best qualities across the vast majority of engineering AND design parameters.

    And: the Avventura.

    I think, what you really mean is: if Fiat's sales are not soaring yet, it is their fault. Shame shame Fiat, lazy, slow, incompetent etc Fiat.

    Me, on the other hand, I've been trying to argue that the car-buying public is just not willing, since most of it has been, and this phenomenon has greatly increased over the last year or two's industry-sales slowdown, coralled, or 'herded' by the 2-3 dominant East Asian firms.

    It was argued that it was the dealers and ASS and spares, stupid! Well, they're well on the way to fixing that. It was argued that the Punto and Linea were aged models, well they've launched very thorough-going revamps of both models. It was said the problem was lack of marketing, well, they've greatly increased both the quanity and quality of advertising and marketing through the last year. ETC.

    BUT: at best, all of this seems to've led to a sales outcome no better than the 900-1200 range that Fiat often managed even in the last Tata days without all these improvements.

    To me: it just shows how skewed attitudes and decisions in this car baazar have become, the public's just following the pied pipers from the Far East (reliabilty! gizmos! snazzi-ness! resale value! ASS!), long after their value propositions have ceased to be true and worthy, and long after the value propositions of the European and American (and Indian) firms' cars have become so compelling.

    Cracking this nut of a market is the hardest thing in the whole automotive world, as all firms except 2 have discovered, many at much greater cost than what Fiat has had to suffer (Chevy, Ford, VW, Skoda and even Honda have huge accumulated losses with their non-export, domestic sales business).

    I am hopeful that Fiat will manage to do so, but it's not going to happen before 2016-17, at the earliest. In any case, the products, their number, the engines and the marketing is NOT the problem, the binding constraint. (Which does not mean these should not be improved further, of course.)
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