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Fiat India - Sales Thread (2014)

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Feb 12, 2014.

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  1. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    497
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    I am slightly amused and not in a sarcastic way to see the reactions in our forum which range from surprise, dismay and anger at why the Fiat sells so low.
    In fact as a few members mentioned earlier, I am not surprised at all. In fact the numbers will go down further and FIAT may close retail sell of cars instead concentrating on selling engines, AMT etc.
    The reason is also staring us in the face and we refuse to see or acknowledge it. Fiat has just two cars - the Punto & the Linea. This is probably the least number of models among all car manufacturers in India and no the Avventura is not something new. It to me has always looked like the Punto.
    Look at VW - they changed their diesel engine in the Polo to a 1.5 specifically for the Indian market. Hyundai changed the i20 from the earlier version completely.
    In case of Fiat - even the ads for the Avventura have some white men (excuse the sarcasm) running around and you want an Indian to buy a product in which there are no Indians.
    To all those who harp about the T-jet it was a good car when it was launched (even now it is a good car but the competition has made huge progress). Fiat does not have the fastest or the safest or the best looking car out there and we still expect it to sell based on a heavy body or a door?The first thing is to change the mindset as I keep repeating - the AAM aadmi buys give him what he wants

    Here is my take - make a car with AMT, small , cute with super - light bodies. Add the airbags but compromise on the quality of the body and then advertise for mileage. 25km/l at the minimum and see how it sells. Get an SUV with all the bling - DRL's, bluetooth, music players, alloys etc etc, ride quality be damned and then sell it at Mahindra XUV range and see how it sells.

    And what Fiat is doing is getting the Abarths that will maybe sell a piece a month and they can be all very happy about it. The Abarth does not have even 1% of the brand value of a Mini and will never sell if sold at competing prices.

    p.s. The least said about the service the better - we have members from the North-East and we know how it is there.

    Sorry for the ranth - peace.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,455
    delhi ncr
    @dadasaheb

    So we say: except build? except ride and handling? except safety and solidity? except gorgeous looks? except biggest tyres and best alloys? except segment best braking? The fact is most buyers don't even consider these as important, hell I know so many who are not even aware of these as parameters.

    But how about we look at VFM, something Indians are supposedly great at sniffing out. A Punto Evo costs less, has more NOT less equipment version-for-version (folding seats, superior feature rich MID, voice commands) has warranties that are thrice or more longer, has FAR cheaper spares and ASS labour charges....and has a FAR longer service interval. Compared to the i20 elite.

    i.e., The total cost of ownership-to-value equation is FAR better than the i20, and that is without even getting into build, ride-handling-steering. And yet the i20 elite has just broken all records for a premium hatchback, selling over 10,000.

    How come? Because Hyundai has the herd-effect behind it, as does that criminally poorly-engineered Swift, that's all.

    What that means is: dealers make big money on sales-->dealers make big money on service-->better service and HR standards/wages-->better reputation/word-of-mouth-->better sales. i.e., a virtuous circle.

    Fiat, on the other hand, is trying to get out of the opposite, vicious cycle type process vis-a-vis sales, dealers, ASS and word-of-mouth. I think it is succeeding, slowly of course, which is unavoidable. It will take at least another two years to achieve even a statistically neutral position, unlike Maruti and Hyundai who only have to announce a new model or a facelift to see immediate, unresearched, blind-trust, herd-based soaring sales.

    btw, I in fact welcome Fiat's apparent cut-back on Evo production/dispatches this month: they're just trying to help their dealers maintain a lean and therefore less expensive inventory going into the (price-depreciated) new year. Am still very confident of Evo+Avventura being at least 1000 if not 1200+ in Jan-Feb, in the face of VERY tough NEW competition in an unsympathetic market-place.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 10, 2014 ---
    @Raj_pol

    The Abarth sales that WILL count, if only on the profit-margin, will be of the Punto t-jet, and as the rumour has it, the Avventura t-jet, not the 500 which is here just for branding purposes, though it too will sell a few every month given that it will be at least 8 lakhs cheaper than an equivalent Mini (Cooper S).

    Don't forget that Fiat gets great revenue out of the tailor-made-for-Indian-market models (namely Maruti-s i.e., engines and AMTs, and Tata Zest+Bolt JV factory sales). And so it has NO need to deviate from its core brand (design and engineering) character for the sake of revenues.

    The question is for them: how to grow sales of their own brand-character-ful cars? We can argue over engines and argue over advertising and ASS but i'd say the Avventura is a good, somewhat successful attempt at doing so NOT despite but precisely BECAUSE it is only a variant of the Punto.

    And only the first such attempt. Much more coming in 2016, including that Duster/XUV-fighter!
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
    jackharrisw and VIJENDRA SINGH like this.
  3. dadasaheb

    dadasaheb Regolare

    Messages:
    374
    Pune
    MH 12 (Ranjangaon)
    Linea 1.3
    i20 has the folding seats feature rich MID, not voice commands but a bluetooth connectivity,
    but does the EVO have
    push button start,
    reverse parking sensors and camera ( not required for enthu public but for Aam Janta ) which helps in parking the car everyday at all places,
    auto headlamps and wipers,
    looks are subjective though,
    does EVO beats i20 in ARAI figures? NO.
    now TATA BOLT even comes with projector head lamps from the same factory.

    may be i am sounding harsh but no offence this is the reality
    Raj_pol likes this.
  4. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    497
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot And the engines are important. The first and second gears are still poorly tuned, and not every customer is going to take his car out to the highways as in the case of the EVO diesel.
    As for the Punto petrol, the least said the better. Actually Fiat should stop selling the ancient Petrol engines. Some of my colleagues ask if the Punto has a petrol version and I say no forget it.

    Polo has 74 and 110 (power, torque), Hyundai (82,115) and the Punto (67,96) with also being the heaviest car.
    You do not do this if you are the bottom of the herd. You are at the bottom, no petrol engines and no small cars which provide volumes.

    Nope @prabhjot with the current plans they are not going to sell more but less and I will you a beer on that.
  5. vista7155

    vista7155 Regolare

    Messages:
    314
    bangalore
    We are seeing this sales figure from past one year and every month we(car owners) will argue about fiat do and dont's but Fiat management are least bothered about the sales figure and to my utter surprise CEO gives statement that they have achieved 50% more sales for Novemeber what he means?
    link "http://auto.ndtv.com/news/with-new-...at-india-sees-50-percent-jump-in-sales-700795"

    Is he talking about engines sales to maruti\Tata or Fiat car sales i dont understand.
    Until and unless they dont bring the CEO like late Karl Slym the Fiat will not recover from this Shit and when maruti stops buying there engines they will end up as HM period.
    The Steel Build quality of Swifts/I20 may be average but they have been supported by good ASS,Features,Style(mass loves it),marketing and Fun to drive factor(Tuning the engine for best output).
    Here i want to completely put blame on Fiat management where they are not intrested in creating products which mass market is required and when maruti/Tata can tune thier engines and provide Fun to drive factor why can't fiat?
    They are completely intrested in Engine sales and nothing else and i forgot now they got orders for AMT they will be happily supplying it to others and fiat cars will have these features in 2020 period IMHO:banghead:
  6. ramjn

    ramjn Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    5,245
    Chennai
    Linea 1.3
    OT - What makes you to think Fiat is selling Ancient Petrol Engines? Are you referring just the 1.2? It is the brand perception that Fiat is suffering from. Fiat's 1.4 is more modern than many of the Petrols sold in the market today. Polo's 1.2 Petrol is a 3 cylinder engine. Nothing to praise about the Figo Petrol too. i20 has the same underpowered 1.2 which Hyndai introduced in 2007-2008 period.
    jackharrisw and prabhjot like this.
  7. teky

    teky Esperto

    Messages:
    1,587
    Chennai
    Not surprised with the sales number, unless there is a dedicated focus from Fiat International on Fiat India's operation they are left alone to survive. Even if they get an 1.5, T-Jet engines on Punto sales figures wouldn't increase. They need sustained focus on service and sales which doesn't seem to be happening.

    I think the 1.4 block itself is pretty old Ramesh. The current line-up in International market carries the Multi-Air version which is more modern and efficient, the 1.4 engine isn't efficient, nor powerful.
  8. gopscreative

    gopscreative Amatore

    Messages:
    215
    Chicago
    Well, Half hearted attempt and lethargic marketing effort. Careless ASS attitude in the some parts of India and just words about upcoming models but really no segment defining USP which really matters!! What else you can expect from Sales.. When you offer better , you get it back in the form of Sales.. Almost every top performing manufacturer has some USP.
    Maruti : Reliable ASS, Inexpensive and Mileage oriented
    Hyundai : Stylish looks, offering the latest to Indian market and growing dependable ASS
    Honda : Established as premium band(although its not)
    Mahindra : Has its own niche segment where others can't even dream to enter!!

    Now Fiat can come up with some USP like cheapest AWD, cheapest AMT, or lot of stuff which they posses in the International market and advertise properly then there is way for seeing some light.. Or else its a dark way ahead!!
    dadasaheb likes this.
  9. ramjn

    ramjn Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    5,245
    Chennai
    Linea 1.3
    My intention was to compare with the competition and not with their own line-up in other markets. While the competition is able to succeed with their much older engines than Fiat, how is it going to help Fiat even if they come up with the latest line-up? Also note that Hyundai's Eon Engine is the 3 cylinder version of 15 year old Santro. Still, they made it work.
    jackharrisw and prabhjot like this.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,455
    delhi ncr
    Let's quit bashing Fiat and face the fact: we, as Fiat owners, are and will remain a tiny minority of the otherwise idiotic car-buying public. A public that has given market concentration levels (between M, Hy and H) of 75% in all the sub-10 lakh segments (barring UVs, where Mahindra has a dwindling share that'll become residual in a year or two once comepetition arrives from the East Asians and others).

    That IS blind ignorant herding: i.e., buying cars without research, reflection, analysis, understanding or imagination. Buying cars from just one or three car firms, even though there are five or six others with good, interesting even arresting (e.g., Evo, Linea) cars on offer, at much lower prices, with better warranties, spares and ASS costs. Buying cars because the other guy buys the car because the other guy buys it......(not that the car is worthless but is it worth 70%+ marketshare?)

    M, Hy and Honda could not have achieved this degree of market concentration IF they had a cartel i.e., a conspiracy! That is how stupid and passive the so-called streetsmart, value-seeking, sovereign car consumer is in our country.

    This is not a rant: it is the objective fact, and we know it from our other car-buying friends, family and acquaintances.

    'Marketing is lacking'. Really? Make the move + hello life + new Linea launch ads + ads about diesel engines and service centres + Evo launch ads + Avventura launch ads + the best website and active facebook pages of any auto firm in India.

    Is that a lack of marketing? We all quote VW' ads, and they spend at least 6 to 10 times as much as Fiat. And they have no historical baggage like Fiat has to carry in India. Guess what? Polo sales last year were down hugely from the year before, and year-to-date they are down hugely EVEN FURTHER in 2014, the new direct injection TSi petrol + class-best diesel + cutting-edge DSG + German quality etc etc has not stopped the new facelifted Vento from being down more than 50% between October and November, let alone year-on-year.

    Not enough models? Really? Renault has so many more models on offer. Only one of them sells, for now. Chevy has models for all segments right up to D2, they never sold well, and are now down 30%+ and have accumulated losses of over 6000 crores.

    Engines? Really? Has the Linea T-jet sold? No. Does the Vento TSi or the Skoda Rapid diesel sell more than negligeably, even with DSG autobox, and no brand-stigma and huge marketing? No.

    The truth is that a Fiat branded Swift would sell no more than the Evo, and a Maruti-branded Evo would sell 18000 (!!!) a month.

    Will a Panda, the world's best city car, sell well here? No. Will the Fiat Nuvo Palio from Brazil, or a Fiat 500L or a Viaggio sell well? NO! Because the brand has a stigma among the herd of car buyers, and they don't want to research, learn or give Fiat or Renault or Nissan or Skoda or Chevy or even, often, Ford a try. Remember: it costs hundreds of crores to launch a localized new model and market it etc. Money down the drain in this market.

    Fiat in India is doing it the right way: first, new dealers and FASS. Then, facelifts (Linea, Evo) of two very good and competitive cars, their best available competitors in their global portfolio. Then, an 'all-new' launch (Avventura). Meanwhile, marketing, and revenues from the Tata JV and engine +AMT sales. Then, finally, presuming the brand has recovered, all-new launches in C2 segment (B-Suv, Linea replacement...) in 2016/17, and Jeep in the D and above segments.

    I am pretty sure most of this month's 616 dispatches labelled 'Punto+Evo+Avventura' are Avventura-s. My local Gurgaon dealer has sold out his first lot, and has sold 17 so far, I have witnessed good walk-ins and a few deliveries myself. I saw something similar even in forsaken Calcutta recently, at the great new/historic old Austin Fiat dealership. And we already have, what?, six or seven Avventura-s on TFi, more than Evo-s I might add! ;-)

    So yeah, am sure the real representative sales numbers in Jan and Feb will show that the Avventura launch was 'successful' by the constricted standards that this market allows a company like Fiat.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 10, 2014 ---
    @teky well, we own a 1.4 Fire Linea in the family: the engine more than holds its own against the 1.2's from Hyundai, Maruti and Honda, in fact it is cheaper too, and better in its mid-range, and in-gear. Indeed, even the 1.2 is great for the city, certainly way more driveable than the horrifically torque-at-high-revs of the Honda 1.2 i-vtec (an ostensibly, 'advanced' engine.)

    The point is: who cares? Do you really think even 10% of the car buyers know their torque from their turbochargers?

    And do you think even 5-10 out of a hundred that do consider a Fiat, reject or buy it in the face of opposition from all friends and acquaintances because of Fiat's engines? Why then has the T-jet Linea not sold well or even better than the supposedly dated/old/obsolete 1.4 Fire my Dad bought in 2009? It is a gem compared to the very very poor new Honda City Petrol, i-VTEC or not, which is not even half the car....
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
    jackharrisw and ramjn like this.
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