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Fiat India - Future Plans

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Amit Rox

    Amit Rox Amatore

    Messages:
    88
    jammu
    jammu
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,441
    delhi ncr
    Hey, why this kolaveri? I don't think the market or public will ever give Fiats a chance again but hey, they have other profit streams from india so maybe they're 'feeling free' to give india another product-cycle go! Looks like it. I'll buy one of those new models, but am certain it won't work overall. Anyway: there's Jeep and exports, engines etc.

    http://auto.economictimes.indiatime...pletely-new-product-lineup-for-india/50863574
    Murphy_Fiat and Amit Rox like this.
  3. vista7155

    vista7155 Regolare

    Messages:
    304
    bangalore
    @prabhjot
    Seriously? should we give them another chance and are they deserved it?
    After so many years still they are doing round by round the old products upgrading/degrading the punto and linea and IMO you are expecting too much to give them a chance.
    From the press release below are the words
    "We have worked really hard with our dealers on the infrastructure and the commercial arrangements with us and how we can make sure they are more stable," This has been completed.
    What is completed deciding to close the bussiness?
    In so many places don't have/Closed dealership and also there is none in Mumbai and he is making the statements about dealer infrastructure:banghead:.

    "Flynn says Fiat is currently at the middle pillar that looks to provide ways to navigate to the third stage" and IMO these guys are hanging in this position from several years and thank god now they came to know about thier status:wacky:.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,441
    delhi ncr
    Hey, the cars are still the best in class, not least in looks and price, as are the engines. IF that didn't help them a jot, 'new' models will? They're wasting their time and money if they invest in new models for india starting in 2017, imo.

    btw, they're JUST implementing the announced and strictly adhered to plan in 2013: with a delay of 6-8 months ONLY when it comes to the Abarths, since the old ceo was sacked and kevin flynn was bedding in.

    See my posts from oct 2014: i had repeatedly said they will stick to the plan (that's what that is for!) and so NO sales improvement will occur before (i said end-2016 then) 2017/2018. The car industry has lead times, in the best, fastest, most capital-intensive case, of 2/3 years at least.

    In our sentimental desperation for 'i love fiats but naya kuch leke do na papa! acche sales numbers leke do na papa' we are self-fulfillingly ensuring the new models will NOT sell at all, when they arrive in 2017.

    btw, is toyota, the world's biggest and most profitable firm by a mile, any faster in india? is skoda? perhaps vw is? or perhaps chevy? renault is so fast .....they still have not released a single real Renault (Dacia-s and re-badged 'third world' nissans don't count, neither does the kwid!) i also like the speed of chevy in india, esp since they still offer NO real non-chinese chevy.

    The Ford motor company, after recieving thousands of crores of tax give-aways, not to mention land from the former gujrat cm/govt, are so fast that......guess what, same story: they are NOT offering a single real Ford either, not even the Fiesta, their entry-level 'one ford' model! Nissan and datsun? Wah, so active in the market. Well, no: they sell next-to-nothing and would have run away already from India if.....they were not due THOUSANDS of crores of unpaid tax subsidies from the tamilnad govt, and did not have exports as a crutch.

    Most of us don't understand the economics and politics of the car business in india.

    egs: Hyundai gets to sell blockbuster numbers of under-engineered, unsafe etc cars (Verna, i20 elite and now creta). Fine so far: that's the norm in india, so what? Well here's what: india has a close-to-free-trade and investment pact with Korea that has let them sell lakhs of IMPORTED diesel engines/cars at no investment cost, imported from korea. And the engines are poor at their co2 etc emissions, as well. I would really have loved to've seen the sales chart of the i20 elite if it had needed to be priced say 50000rs or more across all diesel variants. You think Maruti buys Fiat diesels, near-fully localized at great expense, for fun?

    Why does mahindra make any money from the 'suv' business in india? I assure you not because: (a) they're innovative (b) their quality or reliability standrds are any good (c) their diesel engines are any good at all, ESP on even euro4 norms let alone euro6 BUT purely because India has a 140% import tariff on cars and suv-s (unless they're from Thailand, ie toyota fortuners and innova-s).

    And this is NOT even considering ANY issues of branding, brand-trust or as in Fiat's case: stigma, or of after-sales and dealers etc, where too the economies of scale are tilted more heavily against small market-players like fiat, vw, skoda, nissan, ford and chevy than in ANY other country.

    It is a wonder anyone makes money selling cars here. Wait, hold on now......NO one does (barring MS, HY and Mahindra)! FCA is the only other firm that makes money, via the jv and engines and amt supplies to the domestic market (rather than through exports).

    IF they want to keep it that way: they must not invest in all-new Indian-made, made-for-India models for the Fiat brand. Instead: exports and/or Jeep-only would seem the only plausible way to continue profiting from India.

    I can see what will happen. They'll launch the new Punto, new Grand Sienna etc in 2017 and 2018. After the customary oh-s and ah-s, they'll be castigated for this or that, and folks will do what they would've in any case......NOT buy Fiats. "Arre Fiat, The cars are great, best in class today, and tomorrow but .....should've launched it at the 2016 autoexpo, na baba?" "Too little too late" "Your dealers will shut down so much as i love the cars, i won't let anyone buy a Fiat, let alone buying one myself" etc.

    The NEGATIVE spiral of such herd-opinions and emotions about Fiat (and Chevy etc) is NOT reversible, imo, unless you are like Tata Motors spending a budget of 3000crores revamping everything end-to-end, with 10+ all-new models too by 2017/2018. They are well into that budget spend, with NO sign of any traction in the marketplace, so.
    Dr. Fixated and Amit Rox like this.
  5. Amit Rox

    Amit Rox Amatore

    Messages:
    88
    jammu
    jammu
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    @prabhjot totally agree with you. They are sticking to the plan. Which means I will be driving Fiat Tipo or c-suv in 2018. :D
  6. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    @prabhjot Buyer sentiment cares the least whether the company makes money or not. I guess not. And why should we? Fiat is making money from engine and transmission which they sel to others but stilll can't fix the gearbox -- what reviewrs talk -- on their own products?

    @Amit Rox Third pillar of Kevin Flynn is still imaginary. Nothing known beyond Renegade. Why can't he disclose? Unsure? I am looking at three more rehashes of Linea -- DRL, Auto folding ORVM's and Projector headlamps - not necessarily in that order. If lucky we may get the Aegea rill somewhere in between :D :D
    gpunto75 and vista7155 like this.
  7. vista7155

    vista7155 Regolare

    Messages:
    304
    bangalore
    @prabhjot
    Really don't understand your point of view when we start to call spade a spade and criticise lazy attitude of FCA and strategy, you will come up with same old story of exports and calling everyone are following herd because they didn't buy fiat.
    FCA is not even interested in Indian market the best example is no showroom in Mumbai and it is perhaps from past 1 year or so.
    Please see the showroom conditions of FCA in 100 they may be few who are eager to sell others don't even bother to call back the customer who have enquired the car.
    And on what basis you call verna,I20 and creta are unsafe do you have any real evidence against the safety concerns? Please provide the link so that I can make every one aware in my circle before buying one or if you don't have,please please stop misguiding others.
    coming to "third world" products so FCA is not doing with us? Re introduces 2009 model and you still want to call it as world class product and on par with Europe?
    Every manufacturers are following suit and making the ABS and Airbags standard from entry level and what FCA has done nothing they should be ashamed of themselves they brought the old model and call it as pure.
    Now you might answer that we are not still matured to take or herd mentality,sorry it is not.
    we are treating FCA what it deserves for their stupid act.
    8 lakhs is not cheap to throw away for unreliable brand where they will open and close the service,showroom to their whims and neither bothered about their technical ability or holding the bigger brands because we have brought their products they have to support us and should not run away from customers.
    gpunto75 likes this.
  8. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,441
    delhi ncr
    @vista7155

    You don't get it. It IS a vicious cycle that affects dealers and after sales and resale and brand trust and social media posts and sales and marketing and.....new models too.

    I have explained the econoics of the car business in india several times. Do NOT cite Maruti, HY and Mahindra as examples.

    Please understand that for a myriad reasons ALL other firms are in radical losses for years (including Honda and Toyota, ex-exports), in some cases EVEN accounting for state govt subsidies, such as the former gujrat cm dished out by the many many thousands of crores to Ford, Suzuki and Tata too.

    Stop throwing child like petulant tantrums. Is your FIAT bad? If not: is it terrible to service? If not: how the hell does it matter.....that Mumbai has no dealers or that dealers have shut down somewhere? Will you buy an all-new Fiat model tomorrow?

    The problem is clear: most indians, even some on teamfiat let alone teambhp want 'popular', 'successful car with high sales figures' first and last. We are part of the 'vicious circle' of brand-death.

    Hey too bad, it happens, the brand has no future, imo, in India. I have been stating this for years, and yet hoping to decipher some good signs. I see the good signs, aplenty: Kevin Flynn, Jeep and Abarth launch, rationalization of dealer-body i.e., reduction in dealer numbers, lots of new marketing, $250 million investment in the plant for Jeep, etc.

    BUT: i see not one sign FCA has a hope in hell with the Fiat brand in India. Neither does VW, Skoda, Chevy, Nissan/Datsun nor Ford (non-exports).

    Moreover, India as a market is useless to such big firms, since most sales are still in the low cost, sub-european-entry-level-standard and prices and 2 firms have a lock on 70+% of it too. Why waste time in a market like this? Book your profits from India in other ways, let Chevy, Nissan, etc keep chasing the pure perfect illusion of India-as-the-next-China.

    The Indian market's going nowhere whatsoever, and is at least 15 years behind China in its size financially speaking. It is made to feel like it is not stagnant etc but it is flat to down since 2012, except the maruti share price of course, which is up and upper (love that, have lots of maruti shares, so ;-))

    In fact we are a major cause of it, since we hyperventilate over small things: and seem to've forgotten that FIAT never said they'd launch the new Punto or the new Linea-replacement at anytime before 2017 and 2018 respectively. Look up the 'plan' from 2013, presented by Enrico. So why this Kolaveri, now? Sheesh.

    The myth of Fiat or any other car-fan-dom in India is, as i said, a myth. There is no such unicorn.
    jumu likes this.
  9. vista7155

    vista7155 Regolare

    Messages:
    304
    bangalore
    @prabhjot
    Very interesting post but no where answers my concerns which I raised about third world products from FCA or evidence about other products safety issues.
    Let me tell you it is not only about Mumbai showroom,Fiat has closed 2 service centres in Bangalore to their whims and left us to travel 50kms for bloody pathetic service.
    Don't expect that we have to travel to get small things sorted for 50kms and that too no slots in weekend.
    Leave aside traveling 50kms, boot and fuel lid cable are cut and not able to close the fuel lid.
    boot must be opened and closed through the key so raised the service request in the month of Dec still haven't heard anything so still you say this as petulant tantrum?
    This a common forum to express and if comment feels petulant tantrum for you let it be.
    whatever I have commented is not biased or making false statements with out any facts.
    dadasaheb and gpunto75 like this.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,441
    delhi ncr
    I agree, FIAT dealers are shutting down because they make losses because.... etc etc etc: VICIOUS CIRCLE of the brand. What else am i saying? Exactly this.

    So why are you taking it personal?

    It's business, not a sentimental affair of love, loyalty, and devotion! OR: indignation.

    You should've bought a Maruti, even though bangalore is probably one of the best places to own a fiat, or a vw or skoda or chevy or nissan or tata?, all failed, loss-making brands that will stay that way. Fiat are actually way better than all of these others, btw, i'd claim.

    But: too bad and sad. Hey they may launch 3 -4 new models in 2017/2018 but as you skeptics and cynics about them feel, and i agree. It'll be too late, just a postponing for a bit: the inevitable.

    cheers

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